[SentraSE-R]

Originally Posted by Christ

So you don't eat things like that... if you can't verify that it's OK to eat, you don't eat it. How smart do you have to be to figure that out?

I know from working with the FDA in a meat plant that the "expiration date" isn't a concrete date.. (common sense would tell you this as well). It's more of a suggestion, frankly. It doesn't mean that it's bad because it's expired, it just means that it "might be" or could soon go bad. The actual inception of the expiration date required that enough lee-way be left for the average amount of time it would take the consumer to aptly prepare the item, either for storage or for consumption.

Nobody said that we'd be stronger for some other fool taking his antibiotics. What was said is that dermatologists, scientists, and the general public have found evidence that our attempts to sanitize the world, as it were, are only causing more and stronger strains of the same biological enemies.

Maybe what they're really finding is that people sterilize themselves so often that when something finally gets them, it gets them 100x harder than it would have if they had a healthy immune system?

Are you aware that mothers who breast feed pass their immunities to their baby? Are you not aware that in this natural sense, the vast majority of homo sapiens could actually be immune to many millions of biological pathogens? How about that when a baby becomes ill, his breast feeding mother, through contact, will normally contract the same pathogen, in an effort to "double team" the ailment? The mother's immune system is obviously stronger, so with a small dose of the pathogen, she makes antigens, which are then passed to baby through her milk.

This has nothing to do with some fool taking his immuno-hype pills, and everything to do with the fact that people, as a general group, do not allow themselves to build immunity, rather relying on "science" and synthetic medicine to keep them "healthy". (Or at least pseudo-healthy.)

The Human race, if not so dependent on "modern medicine" could probably already have succeeded in immunizing ourselves against known biological pathogens, excepting the major strains, and those which mutate regularly, such as influenza and the common cold.

Then again, you're suggesting that we take the advice of the same doctors who, in the early-mid 20th century, suggested that synthetic milk (baby formula) was actually better for baby than mother's milk. Those same doctors suggested that when mother is ill, she should "pump and dump" her milk, so as not to make the baby sick... like the baby wouldn't have gotten sick from contact anyway.

Give me a break, and at least grant the benefit of the doubt that those of us who do these things might have some inkling of a clue about what we're doing, and how safe it may or may not be.

Obviously, you're not an advocate, and that's fine.

I don't have a problem with you folks salvaging. As both you and Frank note, "best when used by" dates are just quality recommendations. My problem is arguments based on faith instead of logic, or based on inaccuracies. When your food quality verification is intact packaging, visual, and smell tests that can't identify bacterial spoilage, your argument relies on faith rather than logic.

You're most likely mistaken about working with FDA in a meat plant. USDA inspects meat plants. FDA doesn't have jurisdiction in red meat and poultry plants.

Our bodies build immunity to some viral pathogens, the exact group of pathogens we don't have effective medications to treat, so your collective arguments about the wussification of the world don't hold water. It's bacterial pathogens that are developing resistance to antibiotics, and our bodies don't build immunity to those bacterial pathogens.

As for your theory of us building immunity to all biological pathogens except the major ones (doh!) and the fast changing ones like influenza and the common cold, I'm sorry to tell you it ain't so. Did we develop natural immunities to Diptheria? Smallpox? Measles? Chickenpox? Rabies? How many generations will it take for mankind to develop immunity to the newly emerging Ebola and Marburg viruses? Let's look through medical history for the list of biological pathogens we have developed immunity to. Name one. Pretty darn short list, isn't it? Edit: A far cry from the "many millions" that you claim.

Like I already said, our bodies don't develop immunity to bacterial pathogens, the ones which cause most foodborne illness (nor to norovirus, which causes most viral foodborne illness). You guys can dream on about tough guts, but my chips are down that a good meal of Salmonella laden food will give you Montezuma's revenge just as bad as the next guy.

You wouldn't have a citation or reference to support your claim that "Maybe what they're really finding is that people sterilize themselves so often that when something finally gets them, it gets them 100x harder than it would have if they had a healthy immune system?" I didn't think so. Again, you're arguing from belief, not from facts or logic.

As for the breastfeeding history, today's doctors aren't operating from the same lack of knowledge that existed half a century ago, so the breastfeeding scenario is a straw man.