The guy that survives on no money.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by alohaspirit

If it smells rotten or looks really off color I dont eat it.

(And I have a pretty iron stomach)

But lets say its past expiration date by 2 days and its still in the fridge.

Chances are Im eating eat.

(Soy Milk keeps 2 months past expiration if kept really cold in the fridge)

You pick and choose.

We don't use milk as fast as we get it, and you have to get everything that's on the WIC check to use it... often times, the milk will have gone expired, but never opened, and I still use it, even though my wife won't. Eggs, I just got done eating 7 eggs and 6 pieces of toast. The bread was from last week, and had spots of green mold growing on it, which I picked off. The eggs, we purchased last month. They were far beyond their expiration, but a light shake revealed that only one was actually "bad".

I had some sharp cheese yesterday for a snack. It had green/slimy mold growing on the end of it, which I wiped off before cutting a piece for myself.

These are things I've been doing for years. Apparently, since I expose myself to all these pathogens, I'm sick all the time.

[Frank Lee]

^I do that stuff too. I'd venture to guess I spend LESS time heaving or dealing with an upset stomach or running to the clinic or hospital than the average bear. No, I'm not going to scoop up a handful of maggot infested beef and cram it in my mouth. But, I will take a sip of milk or whatever that's questionable if it passes the other tests and if it's sour, no big deal, I guess I lived through it.

I know there has been an explosion in things like peanut intolerance and other allergies, and other childhood illnesses. You don't have to be a PIG per se, but on the other hand everything needn't be sterilized or slathered up with anti-bacterial soaps and whatnot. I think one component of the problem is kids don't play in the dirt enough anymore.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

^I do that stuff too. I'd venture to guess I spend LESS time heaving or dealing with an upset stomach or running to the clinic or hospital than the average bear. No, I'm not going to scoop up a handful of maggot infested beef and cram it in my mouth. But, I will take a sip of milk or whatever that's questionable if it passes the other tests and if it's sour, no big deal, I guess I lived through it.

I know there has been an explosion in things like peanut intolerance and other allergies, and other childhood illnesses. You don't have to be a PIG per se, but on the other hand everything needn't be sterilized or slathered up with anti-bacterial soaps and whatnot. I think one component of the problem is kids don't play in the dirt enough anymore.

I play in dirt. And grease. And mud. And grime. Always have... something about being an only child with one parent who works swing shift... you find things to occupy your time.

I don't feel disparaged by my obvious lack of monetary wealth throughout my life, I rather feel that it has put me in a position to really enjoy the things I do have, rather than replacing my life with inanimate objects. I feel that I am actually better off for not being burdened with excess in my life, and having learned to live off whatever means I come across, be it others' waste or what have you. I feel that knowing these things has actually made me one of the more wealthy people in this world, albeit not monetarily.

I have a loving wife, a son, family, friends, and I have enough knowledge to take care of any or all of them in just about any case necessary. I'm sure that counts for something.

Getting back to the spirit of this thread, and off the "I eat your trash" debate, I've found that the mere suggestion of giving up materialistic desires often makes people somewhat insane. Obviously, it's very difficult to give up those prizes for which you've worked, but in the case of most of the world, they're just replaceable junk that interferes with living life anyway.

[alohaspirit]

My family always jokes that we always seem to eat the food before it expires anyway



Me: I got some frozen food from my friend because it expired

Her: Hah. We would have eaten that way before then.

[Frank Lee]

I've never been wealthy either but looking back there is no correlation between the times I had plenty and the times that were lean, and the good and bad times meaning how happy I was.

[SentraSE-R]

Originally Posted by Christ

So you don't eat things like that... if you can't verify that it's OK to eat, you don't eat it. How smart do you have to be to figure that out?

I know from working with the FDA in a meat plant that the "expiration date" isn't a concrete date.. (common sense would tell you this as well). It's more of a suggestion, frankly. It doesn't mean that it's bad because it's expired, it just means that it "might be" or could soon go bad. The actual inception of the expiration date required that enough lee-way be left for the average amount of time it would take the consumer to aptly prepare the item, either for storage or for consumption.

Nobody said that we'd be stronger for some other fool taking his antibiotics. What was said is that dermatologists, scientists, and the general public have found evidence that our attempts to sanitize the world, as it were, are only causing more and stronger strains of the same biological enemies.

Maybe what they're really finding is that people sterilize themselves so often that when something finally gets them, it gets them 100x harder than it would have if they had a healthy immune system?

Are you aware that mothers who breast feed pass their immunities to their baby? Are you not aware that in this natural sense, the vast majority of homo sapiens could actually be immune to many millions of biological pathogens? How about that when a baby becomes ill, his breast feeding mother, through contact, will normally contract the same pathogen, in an effort to "double team" the ailment? The mother's immune system is obviously stronger, so with a small dose of the pathogen, she makes antigens, which are then passed to baby through her milk.

This has nothing to do with some fool taking his immuno-hype pills, and everything to do with the fact that people, as a general group, do not allow themselves to build immunity, rather relying on "science" and synthetic medicine to keep them "healthy". (Or at least pseudo-healthy.)

The Human race, if not so dependent on "modern medicine" could probably already have succeeded in immunizing ourselves against known biological pathogens, excepting the major strains, and those which mutate regularly, such as influenza and the common cold.

Then again, you're suggesting that we take the advice of the same doctors who, in the early-mid 20th century, suggested that synthetic milk (baby formula) was actually better for baby than mother's milk. Those same doctors suggested that when mother is ill, she should "pump and dump" her milk, so as not to make the baby sick... like the baby wouldn't have gotten sick from contact anyway.

Give me a break, and at least grant the benefit of the doubt that those of us who do these things might have some inkling of a clue about what we're doing, and how safe it may or may not be.

Obviously, you're not an advocate, and that's fine.

I don't have a problem with you folks salvaging. As both you and Frank note, "best when used by" dates are just quality recommendations. My problem is arguments based on faith instead of logic, or based on inaccuracies. When your food quality verification is intact packaging, visual, and smell tests that can't identify bacterial spoilage, your argument relies on faith rather than logic.

You're most likely mistaken about working with FDA in a meat plant. USDA inspects meat plants. FDA doesn't have jurisdiction in red meat and poultry plants.

Our bodies build immunity to some viral pathogens, the exact group of pathogens we don't have effective medications to treat, so your collective arguments about the wussification of the world don't hold water. It's bacterial pathogens that are developing resistance to antibiotics, and our bodies don't build immunity to those bacterial pathogens.

As for your theory of us building immunity to all biological pathogens except the major ones (doh!) and the fast changing ones like influenza and the common cold, I'm sorry to tell you it ain't so. Did we develop natural immunities to Diptheria? Smallpox? Measles? Chickenpox? Rabies? How many generations will it take for mankind to develop immunity to the newly emerging Ebola and Marburg viruses? Let's look through medical history for the list of biological pathogens we have developed immunity to. Name one. Pretty darn short list, isn't it? Edit: A far cry from the "many millions" that you claim.

Like I already said, our bodies don't develop immunity to bacterial pathogens, the ones which cause most foodborne illness (nor to norovirus, which causes most viral foodborne illness). You guys can dream on about tough guts, but my chips are down that a good meal of Salmonella laden food will give you Montezuma's revenge just as bad as the next guy.

You wouldn't have a citation or reference to support your claim that "Maybe what they're really finding is that people sterilize themselves so often that when something finally gets them, it gets them 100x harder than it would have if they had a healthy immune system?" I didn't think so. Again, you're arguing from belief, not from facts or logic.

As for the breastfeeding history, today's doctors aren't operating from the same lack of knowledge that existed half a century ago, so the breastfeeding scenario is a straw man.

[Christ]

USDA, not FDA, you're correct there.

PS - I subscribe to Darwinism, and don't put much stock in "faith". Only what I actually know and can perform dictates my actions in life.

Regarding today's doctors and lack of knowledge, this is simply untrue. Many doctors still suggest that women should dispose of breast milk that is supplied during periods of sickness. Just because the knowledge is available, doesn't mean that doctors are necessarily any more knowledgeable.

It seems in western medicine, everything and anything that could be viewed as pathology is also viewed as a paycheck. So many doctors would rather spend time doing exactly what mechanics know not to do - throwing money at the problem (copper is a great anti-microbial, isn't it?) instead of actually diagnosing and properly treating it. Then there are pharm companies that would rather save a dollar in R&D than develop a drug whose side effects aren't worse than the pathology which it is meant to treat.

As a result of all this "modern medicinal advancement", as it were, people have weakened, becoming a mass of pill-popping sheep who tend to want to take the "easy way out" of everything, such as even the smallest pains requiring a pain killer strong enough to tranquilize a damn horse. How do I know? I see it daily. Most of my family is stuck on a pillbox of drugs because they refuse to understand that half of the drugs they take are to counteract the side effects of the 2 or 3 drugs they actually need.

My diabetic uncle (like many diabetics) uses his Insulin as a crutch. A corrective device. He overeats, enjoys doing it, then when he becomes hyperglycemic, he shoots insulin to control it. Instead of having just that little bit of extra willpower to control his diet, so that he wouldn't have to LIVE on drugs, he'd rather take the convenience of being able to live his life dependent on someone else and a needle.

How is that an advancement in modern living, such as the western medicine practitioners would claim?

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Er... what?

Most of the concern about "pussification" is just whining. There are valid concerns about an increase in allergies due to going way overboard with hygiene, but as with most things, everything in moderation is generally the best bet. Taking risks w/ harmful bacterial probably isn't a good idea either, but as long as someone exhibits a bit of common sense, they probably won't have to deal with that.

[Frank Lee]

No, seriously- pussification is real! I use it to encompass many things; not just allergies and such... We got candy ***es that can't walk to any parking space but the closest one, can't get in a vehicle in the winter unless it's been autostarted 20 minutes prior, can't go for 15 minutes without checking in with the wife on the cell phone... but back on track, it's this idea that everything that isn't "just so" MUST be discarded.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by SentraSE-R

Where do I begin?

LOL, how about with an acknowledgment of the waste and nutritional/health problems at a societal level? You are putting a lot of effort into swaying a few individuals to get in line with the handling of disposed items, but is there a comprehension of the larger problems? Can you acknowledge the amount of waste and inefficiency in the current setup?

Main concern I have with fear mongering is that it sounds EXACTLY like an FDA statement (assume you have plenty of other peoples money/products to throw away and play it way beyond safe at any expense, plus special interests), can you see the problems as a non fed?