Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerys
Energy return on energy invested is irrelevant.
I can sum up why in one word
Entropy
if you don't know what that means then this explains why you even TYPED the words energy used and energy invested in the same sentence.
Just in case some do not know
100% of all energy usages are LOSSY. you can NEVER EVER get a return on energy expended. the BEST you can hope for is to approach but never actually reach 100% although 100% is mathmatically possible maybe. Not likely in reality though.
this includes HHO this includes Battery Electrics This includes GASOLINE OIL DIESEL PROPANE and any other fuel you can think of. THEY ALL take more energy in than you will EVER see out. Period. End of discussion until the laws of the universe as we know them get revised.
The only real question is DOLLARS IN and DOLLARS OUT.
Lets use a hypotetical comparison of a Gasoline car at 20mpg and a battery electric car such as the RAV4EV both of these are real so its something we can crunch some numbers on.
to go 100 miles in the Gasoline car at current prices costs me $12.10
to go 100 miles in the Battery Electric at current prices would cost me $2
How much energy either uses is irrelevant to me.
The one is $10.10 cheaper than the other (it also happens to use less energy but thats not relevant to me)
NOW lets say I put an HHO system in my car. LETS ASSUME for the sake of this discussion that it does work and lets say I gain 5mpg from it
so instead of my 20mpg I get 25mpg.
the only REAL question here is this. this means I used 4 gallons of gasoline.
IE it saved me $2.42 in gasoline.
DOES THE ELECTRICITY I USED TO CHARGE THE BATTERIES TO RUN THE HHO cost more or less than $2.42
THATS IT. that is the only thing I wish to discover.
if it costs me LESS than $2.42 in electricity to gain that 5mpg per 100 miles then IT WORKS and its BETTER in my view. (also depends on maintenance and how much WORK it is to keep it running this also needs to be factored in)
I don't care about energy in or energy out. I don't care which is more efficient or which pollutes more. I care about one thing.
WHICH WILL COST ME FEWER DOLLARS. Its really that simple.
there are other benifits. even if its BREAK EVEN. I might still do it (especially if its more than 5mpg even at break even) since that means it costs me nothing MORE than what I am paying now but I buy less OIL and this is a good thing to me.
I am going to have to build one of these damned things one day and see if it actually works. ON PAPER it works. the math is sound. if you inject more hydrocarbons IE FUEL into the engine you will go further. WHY some of you even debate this is beyond me its simple science folks.
the only question is NOT if it works but is it PRACTICAL. ie is it cheaper than gasoline.
NO you can not make a car run on hydrogen ALONE. by the time you got a battery pack big enough to allow you to generate enough hydrogen to run the car 100% on hydrogen YOU ALREADY have a battery pack large enough to go 2-3-4 or more times further as a pure ELECTRIC CAR (hydrogen generation is NOT an efficient process) and since no battery tech currently exists to allow 500+ mile ranges for an EV practically then NO your not going to be able to make enough power to run a car on PURE hydrogen and NO gasoline.
but to add a LITTLE bit to increase your range or decrease your gasoline usage even by a little bit? in theory this is doable and these things are CHEAP enough to build that its worth a go (plus I have other uses for a hydrogen generator so if it does not work its no loss for me)
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Quit making speeches and show us the math.
