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Nerys · 11-06-2009, 11:45 AM

Nerys.

Maybe you should consider investing your time, which you can afford, in learning the hypermiling techniques of those on this forum who drive the same car you have.

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I have been "hypermiling" long before it was called hypermiling. I drive 40,000 miles a year. 110 mile commute round trip plus "other" miles averaging 140 miles a day. I learned a long time ago the importance of fuel economy. I am always open to learning more and new things to help which is one of the reasons I LOVE this site!

I have a jeep cherokee with 493,000 miles on it and I put all but 92,000 of those miles on it. I could get 24-25mpg on the highway with my baby and that is with 31" meats RS9000 all around 4" lift and full skid plating and tire on the roof (the 31 does not fit inside the hatch)

On my daily commute with 3-4 people in the car ALWAYS I average 22mpg for 10 years. Then E10 came and its been nothing but a nightmare.
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I am averaging 50 MPG in my Echo which is rated at 32 combined.

Your car is averaging 43 MPG. The combined EPA for your car is 46 MPG.

NO my car is averaging 46mpg. I am going to FIX that by deleting my first tank which is the tank when I FIRST bought the car and it has MANY mechanical issues which brings my average down. and thats with nearly city style driving route carrying 4 people ALWAYS massing 1087 pounds OK tomorrow it will be 1084 pounds (I lost a few more pounds) and about 200-250 pounds of my tools and gear in the boot.

for a car that DOES still have a few issues (working them out) and carries 1300 pounds of mass around on top of its 1600pound curb weight I think 46mpg is pretty damned good.

I am hoping to get 50mpg UNDER those conditions!
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I am averaging 65 MPG in my Insight. The current EPA combined is 47 MPG, just 1 MPG better than your Metro.

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which is why I think hybrids are a rip off. I did the math on a prius. assuming it NEVER BROKE DOWN EVER it would take 68 years for me to make ONE DOLLAR in gas savings and thats me driving 40,000 miles a year! no thanks
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Driving your car the same way I drive mine 60 MPG should be fairly easy to achieve, as long as everything is is good shape on your car.

shove 1300 pounds into your Insight and see what you get :-) its a 2 seater right? (don't get me wrong I DROOL over the insight I think its a gorgeous car! and your only average 5mpg over what the car can REGULARLY achieve with even slight consideration to driving style I know several insight owners who net 60mpg without even trying hard)

also my metro cost me $1100 including the parts I put into it tag registration tax everything. What did your insight cost? (remember I LOVE that car its not just usable for me and even if it was WELL WELL outside of my financial means)
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I think most of us here do understand the ways to maximise the efficiency of our cars, and when the engine is most efficient. That is why we use pulse and glide as well as many other tactics, especially DFCO and situational awareness (in my case) to extract every foot of distance travelled for every drop of fuel consumed.

Your goal of 60 MPG is totally achievable without any additional expense of capital, if you carefully study the proven techniques and apply them to your situation. The only reason you should not be getting 60 MPG is is you live in an area where you have to climb steep grades in your normal driving situation.

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I am fortunate to not have steep grades but I do have a few very long gradual grades which take there toll

I am limited in just "how far" I can go with hyper techs by the traffic around me. IE quick way to get into trouble. I used to be able to do a little more extreme when I was working nights IE the roads on the way home at 4am are not empty but pretty close to it sometimes.

Now I work days and the roads are pretty packed both ways. Pulse and glide would get me SHOT and I am not joking about that. 90% of my route is single lane with little bits of passing lane here and there.
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If your trips are very short, then you might consider a block heater to reduce the high fuel consumption on cold starts.

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if my trip is short I walk :-) pop asked why I walked to 7-11 to get his milk he asked for. I said cause I am not wasting gasoline driving 3 blocks :-)
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No engine is highly efficient at cruising speeds, because it is barely doing any more work than it would if you just ran it at the same RPM with no load.

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I am confused but isn't that the point? to reduce load as much as humanly possible and reduce the RPM to as low a point as possible?
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My Insight shuts off when you are not moving, and uses the battery to boost the engines power on acceleration. The return on battery energy regeneration is about 30%, so I try to avoid all situations where I would encounter regeneration.

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does not shutting off when not moving and using the battery to boost acceleration provide the MOST benefit to your fuel economy?

ie if electric boost was more efficient why does your insignt not do that?
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Light timing, avoiding any brake use, maximising DFCO, which means using no fuel slowing down when you must stop (for any reason) and maybe even shutting the engine off at those 3 minute lights (none that long here) will achieve your goals without having to redesign your car, and it doesn't cost you a dime.

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I will have to video tape my route one day if I can figure out home to compress it. I kid you not I must pass 12-15 cops on my 54mile commute. I am simply not going to find out what they have to say about me shutting off my engine coasting and rebooting it at each light. (it seems in the last few years they are littering the highways with cops)

now if I have an electric motor to take off from the light and restart at SPEED thats different. Thats "hybrid" thats not sitting at a light cranking the engine drawing attention.

and god help me if I take more than a few seconds to get off that light The ANGER that would build in the cars behind me....

ANY time I hit a hill that will let me coast for more than 20-25 seconds I try to turn off the engine when I go over the bridge if there is no real traffic on the other engine I will come down the other side engine off and use the clutch to restart the engine so its not so noticeable what I am doing (a clutch restart on my xfi is seriously quite and smooth)

any time I pull into a parking lot of am approaching a parking lot of the traffic conditions permit I shut it down as soon as possible and coast all the way into my spot. I try to park on inclines so I can reverse out of the spot engine off and THEN start the engine and go forward.

if its level I park "through" so I can pull out without reverse when I leave. this is pretty easy I just park farther from the store I need the excersize anyway.

with my PREVIOUS cars a lot of this engine off was not possible. The jeep and van just do not COAST far enough to make a difference and there auto trans might get upset by this practice. The metro is a different story. all kinds of possibilities opened up to me once I got this car and I plan to use them :-)
--

You have one of the best hypermiling cars around. Don't take this the wrong way, but wouldn't it be a lot easier to just emulate the tactics of those here who freely offer their techniques to others so we all can minimise our consumption.

--

ABSOLUTELY! I have been and I am incorporating as much if it as I can into my driving. but I WANT MORE than that. I would love to get my fuel usage to work down to 1 gallon of gas instead of 2 (round trip)

I think hypermiling is amazing but I don't think its going to get me 100mpg with 1300 pounds in my little metro. so I want to go even further. Very limited by budget but for small things thats nothing that TIME can't fix saving up.

HELL if my other 7 cars are any indication I bet I would get 51-52mpg RIGHT NOW with my metro if I could actually buy real gasoline which seems all put impossible around here.

--

Instead of arguing with others here I would suggest you forget any assumptions about their understanding of engine efficiency and instead studying their proven techniques.
Relax and absorb the vast amount of empirical data that proves beyond any doubt that they indeed understand completely the limitations of their individual vehicles in every respect.

--
I agree but I am also a thinking sentient free willed human being. If someone tells me the sky is red while My eyes are seeing blue well I am not just going to take their word for it. They have to SHOW me the error of my ways and not just because they say so.

if I am wrong GREAT show me and I WILL CHANGE if possible. but when my reality contracts someone elses suggestions well I need more than just a word.
--

The end result will be your goals are achieved and in doing so you will better understand what is really wrong with the ways cars are designed. Maybe some day that knowledge will lead everyone on this planet to demand better designs which incorporate efficiency into the vehicle itself and relieve the driver of the work load necessary due to the poor designs.

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Just give me my battery electric car and I won't give a damn about efficiency. with a $1000 nano solar panel I would never pay a penny for fuel to drive my car every again
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I am still curious how lowering the load on my engine for 25minutes can result in better fuel economy than TURNING MY ENGINE OFF for 20+ minutes?

My way turns the engine OFF for 20+ minutes his way ONLY reduces my engine load at speed for 25 minutes or so.

if I am wrong if his way REALLY WILL result in better fuel economy well 2 things happens.

First it won't matter because I CAN NOT afford a 55mph drivetrain anytime in the next decade.

#2 I will conceded if you can show me HOW this can happen. I would have to average some 200mpg during that 25minutes in order for it to result in a greater savings than turning the engine off? (thats an out of my butt guess but I think it would have to be even higher than 200mpg) I am a bit tired to try and figure out the math on that just now ;-)

11-06-2009, 11:45 AM	#183 (permalink)
Nerys Grrr :-) Join Date: May 2008 Location: Levittown PA Posts: 800 Cherokee - '88 Jeep Cherokee 90 day: 19.44 mpg (US) Ryo-Ohki - '94 Geo Metro Xfi 90 day: 50.15 mpg (US) Vger 2 - '00 Plymouth Grand Voyager SE Ninja - '89 Geo Tracker 90 day: 30.27 mpg (US) Thanks: 12 Thanked 31 Times in 25 Posts	Nerys. Maybe you should consider investing your time, which you can afford, in learning the hypermiling techniques of those on this forum who drive the same car you have. -- I have been "hypermiling" long before it was called hypermiling. I drive 40,000 miles a year. 110 mile commute round trip plus "other" miles averaging 140 miles a day. I learned a long time ago the importance of fuel economy. I am always open to learning more and new things to help which is one of the reasons I LOVE this site! I have a jeep cherokee with 493,000 miles on it and I put all but 92,000 of those miles on it. I could get 24-25mpg on the highway with my baby and that is with 31" meats RS9000 all around 4" lift and full skid plating and tire on the roof (the 31 does not fit inside the hatch) On my daily commute with 3-4 people in the car ALWAYS I average 22mpg for 10 years. Then E10 came and its been nothing but a nightmare. -- I am averaging 50 MPG in my Echo which is rated at 32 combined. Your car is averaging 43 MPG. The combined EPA for your car is 46 MPG. NO my car is averaging 46mpg. I am going to FIX that by deleting my first tank which is the tank when I FIRST bought the car and it has MANY mechanical issues which brings my average down. and thats with nearly city style driving route carrying 4 people ALWAYS massing 1087 pounds OK tomorrow it will be 1084 pounds (I lost a few more pounds) and about 200-250 pounds of my tools and gear in the boot. for a car that DOES still have a few issues (working them out) and carries 1300 pounds of mass around on top of its 1600pound curb weight I think 46mpg is pretty damned good. I am hoping to get 50mpg UNDER those conditions! -- I am averaging 65 MPG in my Insight. The current EPA combined is 47 MPG, just 1 MPG better than your Metro. -- which is why I think hybrids are a rip off. I did the math on a prius. assuming it NEVER BROKE DOWN EVER it would take 68 years for me to make ONE DOLLAR in gas savings and thats me driving 40,000 miles a year! no thanks -- Driving your car the same way I drive mine 60 MPG should be fairly easy to achieve, as long as everything is is good shape on your car. shove 1300 pounds into your Insight and see what you get :-) its a 2 seater right? (don't get me wrong I DROOL over the insight I think its a gorgeous car! and your only average 5mpg over what the car can REGULARLY achieve with even slight consideration to driving style I know several insight owners who net 60mpg without even trying hard) also my metro cost me $1100 including the parts I put into it tag registration tax everything. What did your insight cost? (remember I LOVE that car its not just usable for me and even if it was WELL WELL outside of my financial means) -- I think most of us here do understand the ways to maximise the efficiency of our cars, and when the engine is most efficient. That is why we use pulse and glide as well as many other tactics, especially DFCO and situational awareness (in my case) to extract every foot of distance travelled for every drop of fuel consumed. Your goal of 60 MPG is totally achievable without any additional expense of capital, if you carefully study the proven techniques and apply them to your situation. The only reason you should not be getting 60 MPG is is you live in an area where you have to climb steep grades in your normal driving situation. -- I am fortunate to not have steep grades but I do have a few very long gradual grades which take there toll I am limited in just "how far" I can go with hyper techs by the traffic around me. IE quick way to get into trouble. I used to be able to do a little more extreme when I was working nights IE the roads on the way home at 4am are not empty but pretty close to it sometimes. Now I work days and the roads are pretty packed both ways. Pulse and glide would get me SHOT and I am not joking about that. 90% of my route is single lane with little bits of passing lane here and there. -- If your trips are very short, then you might consider a block heater to reduce the high fuel consumption on cold starts. -- if my trip is short I walk :-) pop asked why I walked to 7-11 to get his milk he asked for. I said cause I am not wasting gasoline driving 3 blocks :-) -- No engine is highly efficient at cruising speeds, because it is barely doing any more work than it would if you just ran it at the same RPM with no load. -- I am confused but isn't that the point? to reduce load as much as humanly possible and reduce the RPM to as low a point as possible? -- My Insight shuts off when you are not moving, and uses the battery to boost the engines power on acceleration. The return on battery energy regeneration is about 30%, so I try to avoid all situations where I would encounter regeneration. -- does not shutting off when not moving and using the battery to boost acceleration provide the MOST benefit to your fuel economy? ie if electric boost was more efficient why does your insignt not do that? -- Light timing, avoiding any brake use, maximising DFCO, which means using no fuel slowing down when you must stop (for any reason) and maybe even shutting the engine off at those 3 minute lights (none that long here) will achieve your goals without having to redesign your car, and it doesn't cost you a dime. -- I will have to video tape my route one day if I can figure out home to compress it. I kid you not I must pass 12-15 cops on my 54mile commute. I am simply not going to find out what they have to say about me shutting off my engine coasting and rebooting it at each light. (it seems in the last few years they are littering the highways with cops) now if I have an electric motor to take off from the light and restart at SPEED thats different. Thats "hybrid" thats not sitting at a light cranking the engine drawing attention. and god help me if I take more than a few seconds to get off that light The ANGER that would build in the cars behind me.... ANY time I hit a hill that will let me coast for more than 20-25 seconds I try to turn off the engine when I go over the bridge if there is no real traffic on the other engine I will come down the other side engine off and use the clutch to restart the engine so its not so noticeable what I am doing (a clutch restart on my xfi is seriously quite and smooth) any time I pull into a parking lot of am approaching a parking lot of the traffic conditions permit I shut it down as soon as possible and coast all the way into my spot. I try to park on inclines so I can reverse out of the spot engine off and THEN start the engine and go forward. if its level I park "through" so I can pull out without reverse when I leave. this is pretty easy I just park farther from the store I need the excersize anyway. with my PREVIOUS cars a lot of this engine off was not possible. The jeep and van just do not COAST far enough to make a difference and there auto trans might get upset by this practice. The metro is a different story. all kinds of possibilities opened up to me once I got this car and I plan to use them :-) -- You have one of the best hypermiling cars around. Don't take this the wrong way, but wouldn't it be a lot easier to just emulate the tactics of those here who freely offer their techniques to others so we all can minimise our consumption. -- ABSOLUTELY! I have been and I am incorporating as much if it as I can into my driving. but I WANT MORE than that. I would love to get my fuel usage to work down to 1 gallon of gas instead of 2 (round trip) I think hypermiling is amazing but I don't think its going to get me 100mpg with 1300 pounds in my little metro. so I want to go even further. Very limited by budget but for small things thats nothing that TIME can't fix saving up. HELL if my other 7 cars are any indication I bet I would get 51-52mpg RIGHT NOW with my metro if I could actually buy real gasoline which seems all put impossible around here. -- Instead of arguing with others here I would suggest you forget any assumptions about their understanding of engine efficiency and instead studying their proven techniques. Relax and absorb the vast amount of empirical data that proves beyond any doubt that they indeed understand completely the limitations of their individual vehicles in every respect. -- I agree but I am also a thinking sentient free willed human being. If someone tells me the sky is red while My eyes are seeing blue well I am not just going to take their word for it. They have to SHOW me the error of my ways and not just because they say so. if I am wrong GREAT show me and I WILL CHANGE if possible. but when my reality contracts someone elses suggestions well I need more than just a word. -- The end result will be your goals are achieved and in doing so you will better understand what is really wrong with the ways cars are designed. Maybe some day that knowledge will lead everyone on this planet to demand better designs which incorporate efficiency into the vehicle itself and relieve the driver of the work load necessary due to the poor designs. -- Just give me my battery electric car and I won't give a damn about efficiency. with a $1000 nano solar panel I would never pay a penny for fuel to drive my car every again -- I am still curious how lowering the load on my engine for 25minutes can result in better fuel economy than TURNING MY ENGINE OFF for 20+ minutes? My way turns the engine OFF for 20+ minutes his way ONLY reduces my engine load at speed for 25 minutes or so. if I am wrong if his way REALLY WILL result in better fuel economy well 2 things happens. First it won't matter because I CAN NOT afford a 55mph drivetrain anytime in the next decade. #2 I will conceded if you can show me HOW this can happen. I would have to average some 200mpg during that 25minutes in order for it to result in a greater savings than turning the engine off? (thats an out of my butt guess but I think it would have to be even higher than 200mpg) I am a bit tired to try and figure out the math on that just now ;-)