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Old 08-10-2010, 09:58 AM   #55 (permalink)
bwilson4web
Engineering first
 
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Huntsville, AL
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17 i3-REx - '14 BMW i3-REx
Last 3: 45.67 mpg (US)

Blue Bob's - '19 Tesla Std Rng Plus
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My apology . . . the Sudbury nickel mine reports continue to echo. I should not have been so snarky.

In the USA, we have a government run web site that allows individuals to post their mileage:

Fuel Economy (use the compare vehicle option)

Over the years, we've had diesel advocates report how they are compatible with or peers with hybrids. Certainly in the case of larger hybrids, the subcompact Jetta and Golf show somewhat similar mileage. But compared to the Honda Insight and Prius, the USA diesels are consistently lower mileage with substantially lower internal volume:
  • 36.7 mph (23 vehicles) - 101 ft{3} passenger 11 ft{3} luggage - Camry hybrid
  • 37.9 mph (27) - 101 ft{3} passenger 16 ft{3} luggage - Ford Fusion hybrid
  • 40.3 MPG (29) - 91 ft{3} passenger, 16 ft{3} luggage - Jetta TDI, auto
  • 40.9 mph (19) - 91 ft{3} passenger, 16 ft{3} luggage - Jetta TDI, manual
  • 49.1 mpg {99) - 94 ft{3} passenger, 22 ft{3} luggage - Prius
  • 49.8 mpg (14) - 85 ft{3} passenger 16 ft{3} luggage - Honda Insight
Mix of 2009 and 2010, USA vehicles

I fully understand the problem with 'lab' test results which is why I prefer the end-user mileage numbers. The pattern is fairly clear that larger vehicles tend to get worse mileage. But the diesel in typical USA owner hands are running over 20% worse yet the cost per gallon of diesel and gasoline is about the same. Notice how the Prius doesn't have the highest mileage but the interval volume is huge (for our fat American bodies and stuff we like to haul around.)

Now this may be more urban legend. I tend to see European driving as having less urban cycle, commuting and more extra-urban or highway driving. In the USA, we have a lot of commuting to and from work. As a general rule, I understand Europeans tend to drive ~9,000 miles (14,400 km/year) versus USA ~15,000 miles (24,000 km/year) each year. This would favor high-speeds in Europe where the hybrid advantage is reduced.

About a year and a half ago, a group called "green human" decided to 'race' from Portland Maine down the Atlantic coast and over to Portland Washington on the Pacific coast. This is almost all highway travel and winter, a time when hybrids are supposed to do poorly. They also used the 1.5L Prius but were surprised that the Prius got similar mileage to the Jetta TDI and even that model Prius had more interior space than the Jetta TDI.

Had 'green humans' chosen a different route that spent more time on higher speed highways, 75-80 mph (120-128 km/h) they could of increased the difference. Also, they didn't realize the hybrid 'cold' penalty (engineered out of the current Prius) occurs during the first 20 minutes of warm-up but their driving profile, long distance highway, erased that effect. <grins>

I tend to look at diesels and hybrids a bit like the stork and the fox. Each hosted the other to dinners that neither guest could enjoy. To some extent, that is what 'green humans' attempted and failed to achieve.

Bob Wilson
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2019 Tesla Model 3 Std. Range Plus - 215 mi EV
2017 BMW i3-REx - 106 mi EV, 88 mi mid-grade
Retired engineer, Huntsville, AL

Last edited by bwilson4web; 08-10-2010 at 10:05 AM..
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