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HAHA · 01-03-2012, 08:59 AM

Sorry for this long post but I thought I'd share since I have experimented a lot with PTFE additives...

I started with SLICK 50 (~1980) because that was the first such product here but I have used other more cost effective additives later. I have put PTFE products in different cars, transmissions, two-stroke boat engines, gear boxes, mechanical devices and even guns. Results are mixed but are definitively measurable for some applications.

The most difficult application is probably treating cylinder walls of a combustion engine. When testing this, it is also difficult to do A-B-A tests because you only get one shot.
As we all know, there are many factors affecting the end results so it is really difficult to be conclusive by just putting it in an engine when changing oil and then do a quick test.

I used to race boats with 2-stroke engines. In this case, it was much easier to gauge the effect of a treatment. If successful, you could literatly hear the difference because the engine ran quieter and started idling higher. Top rpm increased a bit (100 - 200 rpm) but there were sometimes effects that were harder to explain, like changed temperature gradients along the cylinders. These were highly tuned and optimized boats and engines with plently of "scientific" log records so it was easier to spot improvements than in a road vehicle.

Transmissions and bearings are the "killer applications" for PTFE. It difficult to fail and you can notice the improvements immediately. Don't put in in automatic transmissions though...

I mentioned guns and that's an interesting story. I had a friend who was into guns and we tried SLICK-50 grease on one of his air rifles. He measured the performance in a ballistic test bench before/after treatment and the technician who supervised it didn't believe the results initially. He got performance way beyond what should be possible with an air rifle by treating the barrel with PTFE.

I'm a very sceptical person by nature and work professionally with scientific testing. I know what it takes to prove something properly and realize that the various experiments I (and others) have done are not enough to provide scientific evidence. The only experiment I would consider 100% OK, I did around 1995.

I was doing some shopping at place that sold tools, car parts and lubricants and stumbled upon a crowd around a strange machine on the shop floor. This turned out to be a marketing demo for a major oil brand, Mobil-1, I think. They had a machine that tested oil film carrying capacity and they demoed their product by comparing it to other known oils. The machine consisted of a hard metal wheel that was semi-submerged in an oil tray where it picked up lubricant. The wheel ground against some metal connected to a lever and a weight magazine. An calibrated electrical engine powered the wheel and weights were added until the oil film collapsed and the wheel stopped. The salesman was proud to show his oil had about 30% higher capacity that other brands.

I talked to him a while because I was very interested in objective testing and I used a lot of different lubricants in my race engines. I asked if I could test something and he agreed. So I went home and made a "normal" PTFE mix with some standard 4-stroke engine oil and got back to the shop an hour later.
To cut the story short: We put the PTFE-mix in the tray and started the machine. The salesman got distracted by some customer for two minutes and while he was talking, I heard the machine went quiet when the PTFE started to get worked in. We then loaded the machine with weights to try and make it stop. It kept turning although we loaded up the entire weight rack. (His promoted product only managed half of that load.)
We then removed the oil tray completely. No effect.
We then wiped the parts clean of oil and ran the machine dry with full load. It finally stopped after 3 minutes. However, when started again, it kept running as if nothing happened.
The salesman had to sand the wheel and metal parts to get rid of the PTFE so he could continue his demo. He later asked me if there was PTFE in the oil. He had obviously heard of it before but never tested it.

So - for me PTFE is very useful and has outstanding lubrication properties in the right applications. If you can apply it with control on mechanical parts that operates within its' temperature range, you will probably succeed. The hot parts of a combustion engine is however hit and miss in my experience. I have personally never experienced any problems or breakdowns when trying.

Tips:
1. Break in any mechanical device before you treat it with PTFE!
2. Always treat an engine or a part when it's sompletely cold!
3. Make sure the PTFE particles are suspended in the carrier oil before application (shake forever and then some...). Hurry up to work the PTFE in before the particles settle again.

01-03-2012, 08:59 AM	#29 (permalink)
HAHA EcoModding Lurker Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Sweden Posts: 37 Hydroline3 - '09 Mitsubishi L200 Business, Double cab 90 day: 40.86 mpg (US) Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Sorry for this long post but I thought I'd share since I have experimented a lot with PTFE additives... I started with SLICK 50 (~1980) because that was the first such product here but I have used other more cost effective additives later. I have put PTFE products in different cars, transmissions, two-stroke boat engines, gear boxes, mechanical devices and even guns. Results are mixed but are definitively measurable for some applications. The most difficult application is probably treating cylinder walls of a combustion engine. When testing this, it is also difficult to do A-B-A tests because you only get one shot. As we all know, there are many factors affecting the end results so it is really difficult to be conclusive by just putting it in an engine when changing oil and then do a quick test. I used to race boats with 2-stroke engines. In this case, it was much easier to gauge the effect of a treatment. If successful, you could literatly hear the difference because the engine ran quieter and started idling higher. Top rpm increased a bit (100 - 200 rpm) but there were sometimes effects that were harder to explain, like changed temperature gradients along the cylinders. These were highly tuned and optimized boats and engines with plently of "scientific" log records so it was easier to spot improvements than in a road vehicle. Transmissions and bearings are the "killer applications" for PTFE. It difficult to fail and you can notice the improvements immediately. Don't put in in automatic transmissions though... I mentioned guns and that's an interesting story. I had a friend who was into guns and we tried SLICK-50 grease on one of his air rifles. He measured the performance in a ballistic test bench before/after treatment and the technician who supervised it didn't believe the results initially. He got performance way beyond what should be possible with an air rifle by treating the barrel with PTFE. I'm a very sceptical person by nature and work professionally with scientific testing. I know what it takes to prove something properly and realize that the various experiments I (and others) have done are not enough to provide scientific evidence. The only experiment I would consider 100% OK, I did around 1995. I was doing some shopping at place that sold tools, car parts and lubricants and stumbled upon a crowd around a strange machine on the shop floor. This turned out to be a marketing demo for a major oil brand, Mobil-1, I think. They had a machine that tested oil film carrying capacity and they demoed their product by comparing it to other known oils. The machine consisted of a hard metal wheel that was semi-submerged in an oil tray where it picked up lubricant. The wheel ground against some metal connected to a lever and a weight magazine. An calibrated electrical engine powered the wheel and weights were added until the oil film collapsed and the wheel stopped. The salesman was proud to show his oil had about 30% higher capacity that other brands. I talked to him a while because I was very interested in objective testing and I used a lot of different lubricants in my race engines. I asked if I could test something and he agreed. So I went home and made a "normal" PTFE mix with some standard 4-stroke engine oil and got back to the shop an hour later. To cut the story short: We put the PTFE-mix in the tray and started the machine. The salesman got distracted by some customer for two minutes and while he was talking, I heard the machine went quiet when the PTFE started to get worked in. We then loaded the machine with weights to try and make it stop. It kept turning although we loaded up the entire weight rack. (His promoted product only managed half of that load.) We then removed the oil tray completely. No effect. We then wiped the parts clean of oil and ran the machine dry with full load. It finally stopped after 3 minutes. However, when started again, it kept running as if nothing happened. The salesman had to sand the wheel and metal parts to get rid of the PTFE so he could continue his demo. He later asked me if there was PTFE in the oil. He had obviously heard of it before but never tested it. So - for me PTFE is very useful and has outstanding lubrication properties in the right applications. If you can apply it with control on mechanical parts that operates within its' temperature range, you will probably succeed. The hot parts of a combustion engine is however hit and miss in my experience. I have personally never experienced any problems or breakdowns when trying. Tips: 1. Break in any mechanical device before you treat it with PTFE! 2. Always treat an engine or a part when it's sompletely cold! 3. Make sure the PTFE particles are suspended in the carrier oil before application (shake forever and then some...). Hurry up to work the PTFE in before the particles settle again.