Does anyone use a Slick additive to oil?

[Phantom]

I would not use PTFE in my engine, but to say that oil additives are not needed is incorrect but only in some cases. Some of the older engines such as Flat Tappet cam engines need special oil or a ZDDP additive (I believe ZDDP is zink and phosphorus).

[ConnClark]

I could see teflon lubricants used in a gear box or differential as being beneficial though

[curiosity]

There is a video on Google video from John Bishop the inventor of Slick-50 explaining what happened to it... why it changed.

Use the search terms Xcelplus and John Bishop video.

:-)

[markweatherill]

For some reason I couldn't find any results on Youtube. But searching on Google Video brought up the John Bishop video(s). Interesting stuff.

[curiosity]

You're quite right it's google video.

I've corrected it in the original post so nobody else will get confused.

You will find a bunch of other relevant videos along with the first one (if you're interested)... just work through them one at a time.

:-)

[capnbass91]

My grandmother was told by her mechanic, and confirmed with the dealership, that her engine oil needs an additive. It's a '94 Cadillac Deville with I think over 150,000 miles on the engine (not the original engine). I think what she does is instead of putting however many quarts of oil it needs, she uses 1 less and puts 1 quart of some special additive-y oil in it. I think... I'll ask her next time I see her.

[Ragnarok Warrior]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Some of the older engines such as Flat Tappet cam engines need special oil or a ZDDP additive (I believe ZDDP is zink and phosphorus).

You are correct. Older engines (pre 90s mostly) need the zinc and phosphorus additives because those substances are no longer put into todays oil.

To answer the OP (and agreeing with most everyone in this thread) I would never put Slick 50 in my oil. Here's the scientific why: Slick 50 is Teflon (PTFE, whatever) and the problem is twofold- the small portion that makes it through your oil filter, after clogging it up of course, bonds and coats to metal surfaces which reduces the clearances of everything that it touches which in turn increases engine wear and blocks oil passages. The second thing that it does is harden. This happens at higher temperatures and turns the liquid teflon into solid flakes, which in turn block your oil passages more and on top of that teflon is EXTREMELY hard, harder than metal, so it starts to scratch your cylinder walls, piston rings, and your entire valvetrain. The second part doesn't necessarily happen with your granny driver, but under normal driving conditions, those with lean burn engines, and the ones who have grill blocks which increase the heat in the engine, the hardining will happen eventually. So you have just paid 20 extra dollars per oil change to ruin your engine.

The best modification you can do with your oil is to switch to full synthetic. Full synthetic is more slippery at a specified viscosity which decreases wear on the engine, it does not break down nearly as fast as conventional (thus longer change intervals), and in engines with 100k miles on them, it softens dried out/brittle seals and swells them, which will cure a small amount of burning oil/ oil leakage if you have any. This is why you cannot switch back to conventional after putting in synthetic, the seals will start to dry back out again and shrink, thus causing oil leaks.

Two things about synthetic: Make sure you use FULL synthetic. All conventional oils are a synthetic blend of some sort, usually between 25% and 75% synthetic. Don't buy into marketing. The cheapest full synthetic is better than the best conventional (excluding CenPeCo and AMSoil conventional blends). Mobil 1 has a lot of hype and it isn't the best, but it still is good. Also, make sure you use a good filter that is meant for synthetic, with the longer oil change intervals you will want a good filter.

[curiosity]

Originally Posted by Ragnarok Warrior

To answer the OP (and agreeing with most everyone in this thread) I would never put Slick 50 in my oil. Here's the scientific why: Slick 50 is Teflon (PTFE, whatever) and the problem is twofold- the small portion that makes it through your oil filter, after clogging it up of course, bonds and coats to metal surfaces which reduces the clearances of everything that it touches which in turn increases engine wear and blocks oil passages.

>If the PTFE coating is 1-2 microns and the oil passages are measured in mm (1,000 times bigger) then it's not going to make any difference to oil flow.

The second thing that it does is harden. This happens at higher temperatures and turns the liquid teflon into solid flakes, which in turn block your oil passages more and on top of that teflon is EXTREMELY hard, harder than metal, so it starts to scratch your cylinder walls, piston rings, and your entire valvetrain. The second part doesn't necessarily happen with your granny driver, but under normal driving conditions, those with lean burn engines, and the ones who have grill blocks which increase the heat in the engine, the hardining will happen eventually. So you have just paid 20 extra dollars per oil change to ruin your engine.

>Quoting GCIP in the UK:

>Hardness of PTFE
The hardness Shore D, measured according to the method ASTM D 2240, has values comprised between D50 and D60. According to DIN 53456 (load 13,5 Kg for 30 sec) the hardness sways between 27 and 32 N/mm2.

>Refer wikipedia:

>D50-60 is equivalent to a door seal. Not very hard.

The best modification you can do with your oil is to switch to full synthetic. Full synthetic is more slippery at a specified viscosity which decreases wear on the engine, it does not break down nearly as fast as conventional (thus longer change intervals), and in engines with 100k miles on them, it softens dried out/brittle seals and swells them, which will cure a small amount of burning oil/ oil leakage if you have any. This is why you cannot switch back to conventional after putting in synthetic, the seals will start to dry back out again and shrink, thus causing oil leaks.

Two things about synthetic: Make sure you use FULL synthetic. All conventional oils are a synthetic blend of some sort, usually between 25% and 75% synthetic. Don't buy into marketing. The cheapest full synthetic is better than the best conventional (excluding CenPeCo and AMSoil conventional blends). Mobil 1 has a lot of hype and it isn't the best, but it still is good. Also, make sure you use a good filter that is meant for synthetic, with the longer oil change intervals you will want a good filter.

>A boundary lubricant is not an oil. The better the oil you use the better the outcome when using a boundary lubricant.

[HAHA]

Sorry for this long post but I thought I'd share since I have experimented a lot with PTFE additives...

I started with SLICK 50 (~1980) because that was the first such product here but I have used other more cost effective additives later. I have put PTFE products in different cars, transmissions, two-stroke boat engines, gear boxes, mechanical devices and even guns. Results are mixed but are definitively measurable for some applications.

The most difficult application is probably treating cylinder walls of a combustion engine. When testing this, it is also difficult to do A-B-A tests because you only get one shot.
As we all know, there are many factors affecting the end results so it is really difficult to be conclusive by just putting it in an engine when changing oil and then do a quick test.

I used to race boats with 2-stroke engines. In this case, it was much easier to gauge the effect of a treatment. If successful, you could literatly hear the difference because the engine ran quieter and started idling higher. Top rpm increased a bit (100 - 200 rpm) but there were sometimes effects that were harder to explain, like changed temperature gradients along the cylinders. These were highly tuned and optimized boats and engines with plently of "scientific" log records so it was easier to spot improvements than in a road vehicle.

Transmissions and bearings are the "killer applications" for PTFE. It difficult to fail and you can notice the improvements immediately. Don't put in in automatic transmissions though...

I mentioned guns and that's an interesting story. I had a friend who was into guns and we tried SLICK-50 grease on one of his air rifles. He measured the performance in a ballistic test bench before/after treatment and the technician who supervised it didn't believe the results initially. He got performance way beyond what should be possible with an air rifle by treating the barrel with PTFE.

I'm a very sceptical person by nature and work professionally with scientific testing. I know what it takes to prove something properly and realize that the various experiments I (and others) have done are not enough to provide scientific evidence. The only experiment I would consider 100% OK, I did around 1995.

I was doing some shopping at place that sold tools, car parts and lubricants and stumbled upon a crowd around a strange machine on the shop floor. This turned out to be a marketing demo for a major oil brand, Mobil-1, I think. They had a machine that tested oil film carrying capacity and they demoed their product by comparing it to other known oils. The machine consisted of a hard metal wheel that was semi-submerged in an oil tray where it picked up lubricant. The wheel ground against some metal connected to a lever and a weight magazine. An calibrated electrical engine powered the wheel and weights were added until the oil film collapsed and the wheel stopped. The salesman was proud to show his oil had about 30% higher capacity that other brands.

I talked to him a while because I was very interested in objective testing and I used a lot of different lubricants in my race engines. I asked if I could test something and he agreed. So I went home and made a "normal" PTFE mix with some standard 4-stroke engine oil and got back to the shop an hour later.
To cut the story short: We put the PTFE-mix in the tray and started the machine. The salesman got distracted by some customer for two minutes and while he was talking, I heard the machine went quiet when the PTFE started to get worked in. We then loaded the machine with weights to try and make it stop. It kept turning although we loaded up the entire weight rack. (His promoted product only managed half of that load.)
We then removed the oil tray completely. No effect.
We then wiped the parts clean of oil and ran the machine dry with full load. It finally stopped after 3 minutes. However, when started again, it kept running as if nothing happened.
The salesman had to sand the wheel and metal parts to get rid of the PTFE so he could continue his demo. He later asked me if there was PTFE in the oil. He had obviously heard of it before but never tested it.

So - for me PTFE is very useful and has outstanding lubrication properties in the right applications. If you can apply it with control on mechanical parts that operates within its' temperature range, you will probably succeed. The hot parts of a combustion engine is however hit and miss in my experience. I have personally never experienced any problems or breakdowns when trying.

Tips:
1. Break in any mechanical device before you treat it with PTFE!
2. Always treat an engine or a part when it's sompletely cold!
3. Make sure the PTFE particles are suspended in the carrier oil before application (shake forever and then some...). Hurry up to work the PTFE in before the particles settle again.

[curiosity]

Thanks... that's a very interesting post.

:-)