Quote:
Originally Posted by flying kurmaster
you can certainly get trailers for scooters, but the economics of motorcycles when you factor in maintenance, insurance etc... don't add up. I own three scooters currently and have owned more then a dozen, if your question is "what is the best vehicle economically to get around in all weather conditions and have a payload capacity" then I would say get a small car, IMHO
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Finally resuming my thread after two months of computer issues.
People always quote insurance but when I checked for myself, insurance for a motorcycle (even a faster one) at least for me is lower than the cheapest car I can run. Maintenance i'll agree is a bit of a question mark though - in general I would think it would be much less - less oil to change, less parts to rebuild in the future, etc. I assumed scooters would be cheaper to maintain than motorcycles because they're sold as cheap to run but maybe that's not so. Tires seem to be the main sticking point that I can tell because lots of miles will use those up fast, maybe that's the main thing running more expensive than motorcycles. Any suggestions on longest life inexpensive motorcycle tires for commuting? (since i'm now drifting away from any scooter plans thanks to the advice further below)
Cars are 'more efficient' for this runabout use it seems but shouldn't be - seeing enough people riding two up, all i'm seeking is to put that weight behind me instead of on the back of a bike. Partially i'm venting frustration here because just hearing so many people say scooters are inexpensive transportation, it's more like I don't see how unless your only riding the tiniest and dont need to move even a single grocery bag OR unless your modifying it. The larger ones I don't see how the economics works out so I was wondering if there was some secret benefit I wasn't aware of.
Note the OR up there - I guess if i'm going to make something to work the biggest thing seems to be aero - so i'm accepting more that if I want to have really good 70mph efficiency on a motorcycle im probably going to have to aeromod it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTXA
People tour the world with small motorcycles equipped with panniers and a top trunk. You can tote a surprisingly large amount of stuff with this set up. It is also much safer than pulling a trailer.
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What I often find myself having to move is something physically bulky but very light. Examples of some random loads in the last week i've grabbed all under 100lbs but too bulky to fit in something like a pannier includes a couple of Rock Band drum kits, a stack of 4ft x 4ft styrofoam sheets I was going to make movable insulation panels for my basement windows for, a lightweight 3 shelf book shelf, a small kitchen table, and some chairs. I grab stuff like this all the time though they aren't one time pickups (ie you have a kitchen table so you dont need to get another), it's like I give them to friends or trade them for something else that maybe I need, like some textbooks, or help painting the house, etc. I find lots of cheap or free stuff useful to me or someone I know that as long as the gas to haul it is cheap enough or it's on a route I already drive is worth getting.
Yet all of these things would have fit in a 3x3 box trailer maybe even a 2x3 behind a motorcycle (the styrofoam just bungee corded on top) which also for instance hauls enough groceries since i like to get it all at one time (sure i can put "a few" groceries into a backpack, but why make ten trips to get what I need using more gas?) that I can credibly use a motorcycle to replace a huge amount of commuting and routine trips during the warmer half of the year. Anything heavy enough just requires the car but anything of enough quantity makes gas less of a marginal cost for the pickup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by renault_megane_dci
That being said, if you are making a passion of hauling stuff around, you're probably not a motorbike kind of guy ...
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No i'm just like those guys in asian countries that make a Cub 90 do things beyond the normal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant-53
First define your transportation needs. How many miles per year are solo commuting, carrying cargo, or other people? Compare average annual costs of operation over the life of the vehicle. Include the value of your time as a cost of convenience. This way you can get a comparison based on cost per mile. Up to 25 miles a streamlined mountain bike may best if you can maintain 20 mph. Renting a small truck such as a Ford Ranger or a van may be needed a few times a year.
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I think i've done this in other threads, my biggest PITA is that where I live i'm cut off from most of the city by a river crossed only nearby by an interstate only highway that I can't take a bike on or even walk. There's one commute run an electric bike is doable for because the direction I have to go in to find a bike-crossable bridge is on the way anyways, but for most things I need highway ability to cross that dang bridge. I'm on fixed income. During the week time is worth more than money because I just can't hock the extra hour of commuting time vs the minimum once I get back into full time college. During the weekend money is worth more than time, and going slow to pick up my random craigslist finds is okay though since I mostly only get free or very cheap stuff - I just decide whats most worth going for and get that, aware I can't get everything. I'm the designated "stuff moving person" in a type of intentional community i'm trying to be a part of, this is why I have a cargo moving requirement about 10x a normal person, yet what I volunteer into that has to be at minimum cost so far because that's my contribution, whereas others are contributing other things to prepare to build an off-grid "no bills" house and such hopefully starting in a year or two, until then it's collecting things for that future that get stored until.
I've run all the spreadsheet figures of cost per mile and similar over and over again and they mostly lead me in the same direction. Yes the things i'm able to pick up are worth it if I can keep the fuel price low enough, maintenance I do myself and for me insurance even on several vehicles is cheap (I live in an area that adding another car as long as older and cheap is like $25/mo insurance extra, and adding a motorcycle is low as $10/mo) so yes, I really really have gone over this, over and over and over, and I keep coming up with the same answers. :P A Geo Metro will become my normal 'car', an assisted cargo bicycle will become the shortest range/not crossing the highway runabout, so there's a good reason why i'm spending so much mental energy on trying to explore the 80-140mpg region to figure out a solution that works. The number of small item pickups too large for a backpack but suited for a small trailer is enough to pay for itself if i'm getting around 75mpg or better and the higher I stretch it the further I can go to get stuff. Although i'll be exploring car modifications like boattails to stretch the car use up, similar to finding that I can stretch assisted bicycles to replace 50cc scooter use afterall, i'm still trying to better position where and when a motorcycle can and will make economic sense. Maybe in the end i'll abandon it afterall but for now i'm still exploring, because the simple use of a trailer itself makes all the difference.
I'm sorry to be so long winded but yes I really have thought of this, analyzed this, looked at this, and similar, and yes it does pay for itself at my level of use IF I can use a trailer and get better than car levels of MPG while doing so. The other extra costs are negligible.
PS - to make a bit of clarification, what makes all my little cargo trips worthwhile is a simple equation. 1 what does this cost right now to pick up and store? 2 if I don't get this today, what can I reasonably expect to get it for later? 3 what would the cost of temp work/2nd job be, in total time spent, to buy it later rather than picking it up right now? If the total time spent to pick up now even riding slow is less than working for it later (work at a temp agency, minus taxes, to make the after-tax cost of the item bought later) then I get it. If it's not I don't. For instance a table for $5, plus $5 in gas, and an hour to go pick up driving slow - $10 + one hour time total cost. Lets say i'm really bottom of barrel and my after tax time earns $5/hr. If the table is really worth $30 to get later it would take me six hours working later to get it, instead of the three hours to get now thus saving $15 or about one month of motorcycle insurance for me. Deals that really are deals are worth picking up provided it actually is something I actually need or am trading to someone else for whom it's worth more than what I paid. But only if the marginal costs of the pickup are low enough.
It's also why those trying to sell me in other threads on a cummins turbodiesel to handle everything up to the largest loads i've ever wanted to move (10k trailers) won't work as my only vehicle, it makes sense to segment my up to 30-50k possible yearly miles of commuting and loads as long as there are enough loads in each category with enough long term money saved on things needed anyway to justify the vehicle's total cost of ownership, especially when there are tertiary factors mitigating. ("free" parking for 2 cars/trucks in town, 1 motorcycle and a few bikes, roommate needing to use 2nd vehicle routinely in exchange for social credit, doing my own maintenance = less cost on that figure, my cheaper than average insurance, etc.)