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wolydotmatrix · 06-09-2013, 02:28 PM

How to upgrade your braking sys for extended EOC time.

Was ask to give a small write up on this subject
The first part of this information I borrowed from BrakeExpert over on honda-tech.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...47534661,d.dmQ

I will share what I feel is relevant for EOC.
Brake Booster:
"Upgrading your brake booster to the Integra (or maybe other) sized one has the only drawback of pushing the MC forward, so the hardlines aren't going to be in the same place as they were. So bending hardlines may be in order. What a bigger booster does is the same thing as increasing the pedal length, it increases the force on the MC linearly. Like it may may push on it 40% harder or so at any given point. So this basically makes your foot do less work. This is for people who have a really soft foot and want to make their car brake 'harder'. This can be done, but given the weight of the civic chassis, if you use the right sized MC with its paired caliper, no upgrade to the booster is necessary. It gets to the point where its just personal preference."

"Master Cylinder relative to the Caliper:
When you go to bigger caliper than use a larger piston, you are pushing more fluid through the brake lines. Therefore, you should want a larger master cylinder to push this more fluid.
General rule is…with your stock Civic DX, with the stock front calipers, keep your 13/16” MC. Any bigger and your pedal will be too stiff.
With EX/Si calipers, use a 7/8” MC from a 96-00 EX or 99-00 Si because of the more fluid going to a larger piston.
With ITR/Legend/Vigor/Accord V6 or Integra DA or DC calipers, use a 15/16” MC from a 98-01 Integra LS to accommodate for the even more fluid. Any smaller of a MC will cause the pedal swing to be too long.
With NSX or Legend GS calipers that have two pistons, or an aftermarket caliper with multiple pistons, you’ll want a 1” MC because of even more fluid required to push all the pistons. Get the 1” MC from a 98-01 Integra GSR or ITR MC as it bolts onto the EK brake booster.
When changing out a master cylinder, be sure to 'bench bleed' it first. This involves having fluid in the resovoir and pumping it unconnected to allow fluid to fill the internals. If you don't do this, you can still bleed the car, but you may be at it all day, since air pockets may stick in there. Research bench bleeding before you attempt this on your own.
A bigger caliper usually has a bigger bracket, thus holds a bigger surface area pad. This is generally better, and that’s why on a Civic, you swap on an Integra caliper, because the piston is bigger (more fluid, that doesn’t help) but the pad is bigger, and the piston disperses its energy over more area because of a larger contact surface with the shim."

His write up is very detailed.
My personal gas sipper was once a track car, NASA time trials. Throgh my upgrading experiences I ended up with an interesting combo for a brake sys.
Booster 290V from either accord or ITR can't remember. ITR brake master cylinder 1", stainless steel soft lines, and Legend 2 pot calipers, 95 prelude VTEC rotors redrilled and 98 Accord V6 pads. This sys is over kill for 40+ mpg. However, as I utilize the EOC driving I feel better with this setup. The larger bore master and the increased size of the booster allow longer EOC events IMO. For instance, I have been able Glide for upto 1.5 miles @45mph with little to no increase in pedal effort. While my set up is extreme, the results are sound.

Cons:
I am limited to 15" rim
The entire sys weighs more.

Alternate:

The master , booster and stainless lines would be a good upgrade with out having to change wheels.
"Food For thought"
Open for discussion:

-Adam-

06-09-2013, 02:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
wolydotmatrix Coasting in the Carolinas Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: CLT, NC Posts: 33 Blue - '94 Honda Civic DX Team Honda 90 day: 47.49 mpg (US) Thanks: 7 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Brake upgrade? How to upgrade your braking sys for extended EOC time. Was ask to give a small write up on this subject The first part of this information I borrowed from BrakeExpert over on honda-tech. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...47534661,d.dmQ I will share what I feel is relevant for EOC. Brake Booster: "Upgrading your brake booster to the Integra (or maybe other) sized one has the only drawback of pushing the MC forward, so the hardlines aren't going to be in the same place as they were. So bending hardlines may be in order. What a bigger booster does is the same thing as increasing the pedal length, it increases the force on the MC linearly. Like it may may push on it 40% harder or so at any given point. So this basically makes your foot do less work. This is for people who have a really soft foot and want to make their car brake 'harder'. This can be done, but given the weight of the civic chassis, if you use the right sized MC with its paired caliper, no upgrade to the booster is necessary. It gets to the point where its just personal preference." "Master Cylinder relative to the Caliper: When you go to bigger caliper than use a larger piston, you are pushing more fluid through the brake lines. Therefore, you should want a larger master cylinder to push this more fluid. General rule is…with your stock Civic DX, with the stock front calipers, keep your 13/16” MC. Any bigger and your pedal will be too stiff. With EX/Si calipers, use a 7/8” MC from a 96-00 EX or 99-00 Si because of the more fluid going to a larger piston. With ITR/Legend/Vigor/Accord V6 or Integra DA or DC calipers, use a 15/16” MC from a 98-01 Integra LS to accommodate for the even more fluid. Any smaller of a MC will cause the pedal swing to be too long. With NSX or Legend GS calipers that have two pistons, or an aftermarket caliper with multiple pistons, you’ll want a 1” MC because of even more fluid required to push all the pistons. Get the 1” MC from a 98-01 Integra GSR or ITR MC as it bolts onto the EK brake booster. When changing out a master cylinder, be sure to 'bench bleed' it first. This involves having fluid in the resovoir and pumping it unconnected to allow fluid to fill the internals. If you don't do this, you can still bleed the car, but you may be at it all day, since air pockets may stick in there. Research bench bleeding before you attempt this on your own. A bigger caliper usually has a bigger bracket, thus holds a bigger surface area pad. This is generally better, and that’s why on a Civic, you swap on an Integra caliper, because the piston is bigger (more fluid, that doesn’t help) but the pad is bigger, and the piston disperses its energy over more area because of a larger contact surface with the shim." His write up is very detailed. My personal gas sipper was once a track car, NASA time trials. Throgh my upgrading experiences I ended up with an interesting combo for a brake sys. Booster 290V from either accord or ITR can't remember. ITR brake master cylinder 1", stainless steel soft lines, and Legend 2 pot calipers, 95 prelude VTEC rotors redrilled and 98 Accord V6 pads. This sys is over kill for 40+ mpg. However, as I utilize the EOC driving I feel better with this setup. The larger bore master and the increased size of the booster allow longer EOC events IMO. For instance, I have been able Glide for upto 1.5 miles @45mph with little to no increase in pedal effort. While my set up is extreme, the results are sound. Cons: I am limited to 15" rim The entire sys weighs more. Alternate: The master , booster and stainless lines would be a good upgrade with out having to change wheels. "Food For thought" Open for discussion: -Adam- __________________ Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.