Quote:
Originally Posted by n8thegr8
I have little respect for mythbusters, particularly with the hho mod they did it the worst way possible and didn't follow any of the MANY available free plans out there on the internet...BUT...onboard HHO generation is completely useless, for mpg gains anyway. By the laws of thermodynamics, you can't get more energy out of the combustion of the gas than you put in electrical power to split it. That means even if you got 1mpg increase, you'd be breaking the laws of physics. Even if your generator was 100% efficient (commercial grade electrolysis setups are at max 70% efficient, and those are quite costly) you'd just be breaking even. This is because for each amp you pull on your alternator, you're adding resistance and strain to the motor, requiring more fuel to generate the electricity to run your electrolyzer. So you see, unless your electrolyzer is 100% efficient, you'll actually be LOSING mpg.
Any gains reported can be attributed to 1. Increased awareness of driving habits, driving more conservatively, or 2. Because you need to lower your fuel input by spoofing the o2 sensor, this alone actually increases mpg whether you use hho or not. Don't feel bad though, I nearly fell for it as well, until I started remembering my chemistry and physics classes.
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Why are so many people so eager to use the knowledge they already have to prove something wrong?
Thermodynamics is the study of thermodynamics, chemistry the study of chemistry, neither is the study of internal combustion engines fueled by gasoline and oxyhydrogen.
We're all aware of the laws of physics and thermodynamics, I've _never_ seen an HHO advocate claim overunity, in fact, most repeatedly point out very clearly that they are not producing or claiming an overunity system.
Most only claim that they get better milage with their HHO setup running, which they overwise can not achieve without it... regardless of how or why, that's (generally) what is claimed.
There are plausable arguments to prove and disprove that claim.
The 'laws of thermodynamics' argument is perfectly valid, however, the 'imperfect system' argument is also perfectly valid until someone proves it wrong, in that;
HHO may allow more of the fuel to burn more efficiently, or better, or however we want to say it. That is not creating more energy, it's simply using more of the fuel, which otherwise was not burnt at all, or burnt at a less efficient time in the cycle.
It may be that the improvement is only caused by spoofing O2 sensors and leaning the mixture (although there are many, or even most, claims coming from carb'd cars with no modification)... one theory/claim is that HHO mixed with gasoline 'burns like hydrogen', with a faster flame front and effectively higher RON, thus allowing leaner mixtures without detonation. So yes, maybe the improvement is from lean mixtures, but those lean mixtures were still made possible by HHO.
Some claims are that engines running HHO run cooler, regardless of why they're running cooler, if that is true, that less heat means less energy being wasted, so where would that energy end up? Probably in the electrolyser hahah, but maybe some also makes it to the wheels.
Proving something wrong needs just as much dedication to proving it right.
You can't just say "Oh, well I am unable to do it, so it must not be possible.".
When an ICE is only about 30% efficienct, noone can say that more energy can not be scavanged from the system.
The weekend is close, get your glass jars and 10 amp fuses ready
