[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by XYZ

Life before the industrial revolution was "nasty, brutish and short", indeed. Is this pre-industrial way of life your idea of utopia? Or is it a hell-hole that you never knew?

Leviathan ? If so the full quote is worth adding :

In such condition there is no place for industry, because the fruit thereof is uncertain, and consequently, not culture of the earth, no navigation, nor the use of commodities that may be imported by sea, no commodious building, no instruments of moving and removing such things as require much force, no knowledge of the face of the earth, no account of time, no arts, no letters, no society, and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.

In short more or less we go back to about 1700, if not earlier.