It's all over but for the sweating?

[CFECO]

"The important things like water supply and refrigeration are technically possible in a non-emitting and sustainable economy."

Please explain a "Non-emitting and sustainable" Economy....
Is "Everything" going to be powered by Solar Panels and Wind Generators?
Even these?

[P-hack]

It doesn't need to be had, the problem will correct itself one way or the other. We are going to have to suffer before valuing sustainability. Too many variables, this isnt gravity or evolution. War and disease and famine suck, but you can't have the yin without the yang.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by XYZ

Life before the industrial revolution was "nasty, brutish and short", indeed. Is this pre-industrial way of life your idea of utopia? Or is it a hell-hole that you never knew?

Leviathan ? If so the full quote is worth adding :

In such condition there is no place for industry, because the fruit thereof is uncertain, and consequently, not culture of the earth, no navigation, nor the use of commodities that may be imported by sea, no commodious building, no instruments of moving and removing such things as require much force, no knowledge of the face of the earth, no account of time, no arts, no letters, no society, and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.

In short more or less we go back to about 1700, if not earlier.

[XYZ]

Originally Posted by Occasionally6

Now this is the discussion that needs to be had; what needs to be done.

The discussion does not "need to be had". That anything "needs to be done" is an assumption, based upon a belief.

No, we're not going back to preindustrial conditions in terms of material wealth.

Then what, specifically, is your proposal? Or is this just a trolling expedition?

The important things like water supply and refrigeration are technically possible in a non-emitting and sustainable economy.

Before electric power and modern refrigeration existed people used ice boxes. The ice was cut during the winter and kept in ice houses for delivery by horse drawn wagon to homes. Is that your idea of progress? If not, what are you proposing as an alternative?

There are many people who have shown that it is possible to live without using fossil fuels in daily life.

This is a romantic fantasy. Of course, there are some places on earth where people are still living in primitive societies. They enjoy all the wonderful advantages of a non-modern existence, including disease, famine, illiteracy, etc. (sarcasm deliberate).

It's like recommending a starvation diet as a cure for famine...

[freebeard]

That's one of the things that needs to be turned off ASAP.

The conversation has taken a hopeful turn. In times of doubt and confusion it's best to fall back to basic priciples established since the 1970s, and move forward from here:

• Operating manual for Spaceship Earth
  Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  
• Critical Path
  Critical Path (book) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  
• Synergetics
  http://www.rwgrayprojects.com/synergetics/toc/toc.html/
  
• Organic Architecture
  Organic architecture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As Bucky Fuller and Frank Lloyd Wright anticipated, the way foward is on the nano scale.

And I guess Issac Asimov, too

• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spome

[Arragonis]

If you turn that off then you also turn off any hope of having a modern society at all.

I like 2014. I prefer it to 1745.

[gone-ot]

Arragonis -- nice "Mosquito" plan view...you taking up WWII plane spotting?

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

Arragonis -- nice "Mosquito" plan view...you taking up WWII plane spotting?

I try when I can. When the East Fortune air show is on the display planes form up over my house... Spitfires, Hurricanes, P51s as well as some more modern stuff. Still waiting for the Vulcan to come over though.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UkWO5zV...%3DUkWO5zVPz4g

[Arragonis]

ps. The Vulcan is the plane that managed to "bomb" the USA in excersizes in the 1960s - they managed to evade air defences and reached their targets. My next profile might be the BAC Lightning which managed to intercept a U2 and catch Concorde from the 6 O'Clock position when an F15 and F16 couldn't.

[CFECO]

That IS Sweet!
Here is a Little beauty that I actually found in a scrap yard, that our air museum acquired. I talked to one of the pilots of the B-58 once, and being pre-titanium, the plane could go so fast, it would melt if they over did it. We also had air-shows at DM Air Base in Tucson long ago, when the Thunderbirds flew F-4 Phantoms, loudest air-show around.