[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

Re: Post #23

“BTUs don't linearly translate to mpg…”

Big Dave says:
In the same cycle engine the issue is BTU/mile.

*Cents/mile is the BOTTOM LINE.


“Fuel grade ethanol is denatured with gasoline and/or gasoline components.”

Big Dave says:
That might explain why the stuff is so expensive in terms of $/MMBTU.

*"Today fuel grade ethanol is denatured at the 2 to 2.5v% level"




“I'm not buying BTUs; I'm buying gallons.”

Big Dave says:
If you expect the vehicle to move, you are buying BTUs. Gasoline, diesel, E85, E10, CNG, propane - all are providing heat to the engine. If fluffy bunnies would provide heat we’d burn them, too. Heat turns the wheels. That is the essence of the science of thermodynamics.

*When I give my dollars to the cute cashier girl, it is for gallons.

“…z"facts" has an agenda…”

Big Dave says:
Everybody has an agenda. The EPA has an agenda. ADM and Cargill have an agenda as well. My agenda is that of the motorist. "zfacts” calculations closely mirror my own calculations so they are probably a close approximation.

*Calcs from one who hasn't even tested it. What about the REAL data from EMers?

“IF gasohol was ever reviled…”

Big Dave says:
Gasohol was indeed reviled because the alcohol in it was hygroscopic and it absorbed water vapor from the empty space in the gas tank. Especially in the late winter and early spring as the OAT went back and forth across 32 degrees the gasohol would absorb moisture and fall out of solution with the gasoline and form a “vodka” (a mixture of alcohol and water) in the bottom of the tank. This vodka would get in the fuel lines and make the cars run ratty. Today they add methyl isobutyl ketone (MIBK) to stabilize the mixture. Chemically, MIBK is very similar to methyl tertiaty butyl ether (MTBE).

*Good, it's fixed. Why are we talking about it?


“Just preach facts instead of hyperbole please.”

Big Dave says:
I preach engineering fundamentals.

*No, you don't.

Re: Post #24
“One could even say ethanol has nothing to do with any increases.”

Big Dave says:
Taking corn off the food market by means of higher prices for making fuel drives the price of corn up. Much to the delight of Cargill and ADM. Just like organic chemistry and thermodynamics, the fundamentals matter in microeconomics.

*Brewer's grains. So how much of that corn is REALLY off the food market?

“There's a food shortage in N.A.?”

Big Dave says:
There’s a shortage of tortilla flour in Mexico. Prior to the coming of corn ethanol, the Mexicans imported US-grown corn to make tortilla flour. I suspect high corn prices are driving the wave of immigration into the US.

*I don't care about Mexico, or any other region where the main hobby is reproducing with no ****s given about the carrying capacity of their environment.

Re: Post #25
“Is it the government that causes Everclear to cost that much more than fuel-grade ethanol?”

Big Dave says:
Have you ever seen the tax on potable spirits? Taxes are imposed by governments.

*Yup, booze taxes are high. How much of the price premium for booze vs fuel ethanol is tax? Also... what does this have to do with anything besides obfuscate and distract?


Re: Post #26
“The government getting involved in encouraging or discouraging behavior is the root of all our problems. How wonderful life would be if we didn't give a rip who was elected to any office anywhere because in the end it didn't effect our lives one way or the other.”

Big Dave says:
Hear! Hear!

*Yeah, I'd like to hear how much cheering there'd be if all trade rules and regs were abolished.

Re: Post#27
“Did Edison's light bulbs need a subsidy to overtake sperm whale oil lamps as the dominant source of lighting?”

Big Dave says:
You are right on the point, but you skipped a step. Kerosene lamps displaced whale oil lamps and candles, making John D. Rockefeller rich in the process. Edison’s light bulb threatened the kerosene business. Fortunately for Rockefeller, the gasoline engine came along.

*Not EVERYTHING warrants a start-up subsidy, and not NOTHING either. Besides, hasn't that ship sailed?

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