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Old 03-06-2015, 12:30 PM   #250 (permalink)
niky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
You are all over the map.
All over the map in what way? My opinion on the matter has nothing to do with what I'm posting. All I'm doing is pointing out market realities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
the list of percentages adds up to WAY over 100%, and only shows that value is about as important as safety. Right now the level of safety is pretty much equal as I would say value is as well.
More like 300%, since that's three choices. CR overshoots that by another 300%, but without detailed methodology, we don't know how they weighted the answers.

And remember, value does not mean cheap. It means people expect something for their money, as so:

2014 Car Brand Perception Survey | Best Car Brands - Consumer Reports

Quote:
Consumers remain value conscious, looking to get the most for their money. With cars, that means looking beyond the purchase price to what the vehicle delivers for that cash. Here, we see consistent year-over-year rankings, with the same five automakers topping the chart.

Toyota
Honda
Ford
Kia
Chevrolet
*They conveniently gloss over the fact that Hyundai was top five in 2013... because Hyundai and Kia are basically the same candy in different wrappers.

You'll note that the manufacturers with the cheapest cars, Nissan and Mitsubishi, are not up there, while Toyota and Honda, generally regarded as the most expensive of the Japanese mass manufacturers, are at the top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
We will never know if people would buy that stuff because it is not allowed.
I would spend $5000 on a Datson Go in a heartbeat and I doubt it's just me.
face it you are not pro choice and want to force your religion on my body.
For one thing, I have no religion. For another, I don't roll that way.

Further, I dislike artificial trade barriers and market-distorting legislation. I think you should be able to buy whatever you want, whether or not it meets CARB requirements or possesses a two-stage passenger bag. I'm simply pointing out that not enough customers will buy the cars you're pining for to convince manufacturers to sell them in volume in the US. Not at the prices they're selling at.

Let's see how the Go and Nano are selling in India, a country where minimum wage is 1/20th of America's:

January 2015 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis - Team-BHP

No, they're not selling all that well. (Not surprising to me, I've been following Indian sales and the disappointment of the Nano for quite a while). And that's because even third-worlders value quality, reliability and safety, as here:

Small car sales may accelerate over next 5 years: KPMG survey | The Financial Express

Note that different market conditions distort the study. Economy ranks over quality/reliability and safety in India because gasoline costs a whole lot more when you're making a whole lot less than the typical American.

The emphasis on safety also helps (partially) explain the dip in Datsun Go sales in November:


As that's the time Max Mosley and his Global NCAP program tried to shame Nissan into pulling it off the market due to a "zero star" crash rating. Mosley has been trying to pressure India to get on board the NCAP program. If he has his way, goodbye $6k Go.

The Nano has never sold well. When you're building a $4k car, you cut a lot of corners. We third-world buyers may be poor, but we're not going to buy a four-wheeled fire hazard over a motorbike or a more rugged, dependable Suzuki-Maruti Alto. You could fit the Nano with ABS, airbags and a stiffer crash structure while still staying under $6k. It still won't sell, because it is a relatively inefficient, noisy, under-performing piece of cow dung.

The Maruti Alto is an interesting counterpoint. It sells well in India (it basically outsells the Toyota brand) because it's Indian-made, rugged, cheap and economical. But it sells terribly elsewhere.

We have them here in the Philippines... a country with no crash regulations or airbag requirements, and with a minimum wage twice that of India. They cost a third of what a Yaris does, yet sell in small numbers.

Because we have richer buyers. And richer buyers don't like buying spartan, unsafe cars. Cheap-ass buyers, on the other hand, do what cheap-ass buyers the world over do... take one look at the price and decide that, all things equal, they'd rather buy a secondhand Toyota. Preferably one with airbags. (Me, I'd drive an Alto every day... lovely fuel economy. Unfortunately my wife hates them)

Now go up to Americans, with ten times the money, and over fifty years worth of used cars to pick from... what do you think will happen?

-

Looking at the sales, the cheapest you can go with the American market while seeing reasonable success is the Versa. The Mirage, one segment lower, is still an outlier, and unless sales improve drastically, I doubt anyone will want to bring in sub-Mirage cars. There are two distinct market segments underneath the Mirage, (Nano/Alto sized and Go/Spark sized) and it will take a long time for the buying public to warm up to cars that small. If they warm up to them at all.

Last edited by niky; 03-06-2015 at 12:42 PM..
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