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Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile
It's as relevant to me as the $17k Insight is to you.
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Exactly ... which means your break even you did for yourself .. under the $47k ... only applies to new Australian I1.
In order to go as far as you did about your claim for all I1s ... your break even math would also have to be done with the $17k or $18k that someone else (out-side of Australia) paid for a new I1... That $30,000 difference changes the results of the 'new' break even point.
To go as far as all HEVs ... is an even larger thing.
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Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile
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Originally Posted by IamIan
For the record .. I intended no cherry picking... But Honestly .. I also made no effort to do an extensive search... they were intended to show what they did show ... that Australia artificially raises the price of vehicles compares to the rest of the world .. 2x or even 3x is not unheard of , nor uncommon.
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I believe this to be true, but it bares no impact on the discussion at hand, particularly since I've posted over and over that most cars are roughly on par with the US and some even cheaper. |
It bares weight as long as you keep referencing the $47k Australian price... which as you agreed is only relevant as an artificial price increase in Australia.
No Honda made in Japan is priced in Australia on par with the same Made in Japan Honda priced in US ... none of them... Australia penalized the I1 to the tune of $30,000 .. that isn't the car itself ... it's Australia.
No Toyota made outside of Australia is priced on par with US .. none of them.
You have not shown ... "most are on par" ... because none of those are .. Australia is known to artificially inflate those prices... some more than others.
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Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile
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Originally Posted by IamIan
They did keep it bellow that .. everywhere else on the planet.
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Clearly not. |
I request you back up you 'clearly not' claim ... show me any other non-Australian market that charged MSRP the $47k for the 2000 Insight.
Because Honda did clearly keep it bellow that $47k MSRP as I wrote ... everywhere else on the planet... The US they kept it bellow that ... the UK they kept it bellow that ... etc... etc.
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Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile
Honda themselves have stated the cars sold at a loss. I can't believe you don't know that. The only question is how much of a loss.
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I've already replied to this before ... but I'll repeat myself.
AFAIK those claims are Honda including the R&D on the Insight .. than the benefits of that R&D get used 'for free' on other models .. It's a corporate tax paper work shuffle... it's isn't unique to Honda .. Many companies do something similar... and as I wrote ... I don't agree with that methodology... the price to make a car is only the price to make the car.
If you have a source that actually shows it is only the manufacture price alone that was soo high it was sold at a loss ... great ... post it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile
Even the current Japan built Hondas sell at a loss in the US.
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#1> Current in 2012 has nothing to do with how profitable a car was in 2000.
#2> Read the source you sited ... It supports my HEV position and is actually against yours ... that article attributed it ... not to anything at all to do with the manufacturing of the cars ... or the technology in the cars ... Weather it was a HEV or not .. etc ... Which is exactly the point I've been making ... just the current exchange rate Yen to $.
#3> Your own article further explains why ... it is not a loss ... but a net gain for Honda to still do those imports ... "Honda needs the vehicles to keep segments covered and to keep its customers coming back to showrooms."
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Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile
Toyota have also stated the Prius sold at a loss (Even the million dollar plus Bugatti Veyron sold at a loss- selling at a loss isn't uncommon in the car industry - that's why GM & Chrysler had to be bailed out).
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See above ... the 'loss' claim is not for just the manufacture of the vehicle.
See above ... spending $100 in order to make $200 ... is not a loss of $100 ... it is a net profit of $100... weather Toyota did it .. or Honda did it ... doing something that has a net profit is a net profit.
GM and others needed a bail out because of extremely bad upper management .. not because of cars being sold at a loss ... heck they flew private jets on the companies cost to go ask for government money... etc... etc.