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Old 05-20-2016, 03:04 PM   #59 (permalink)
RustyLugNut
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Again, errors of understanding.

I've been accused of being unkind in rebuttal, but sometimes there is no way around it. But, the bottom line here is that hydrogen is just the ENERGY CARRIER. The same way electricity is. They both transfer the energy of the primary power source. With that in mind you can see that the Rasa is both brilliant and flawed at the same time, but only in the aspect of the energy carrier. I have mentioned in other posts that fossil fuels are essentially energy carriers of the sun but for the narrow timeline that is humanities endeavors we can consider it as a primary energy source as we can solar derived energies such as wind and weather.

This misunderstanding runs deep in many global energy discussions on this and other forums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay635703 View Post
I like the car, just hate the powertrain.
I think you mean, "I hate hydrogen". The drive train is brilliant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay635703 View Post
A drivable unicorn is still a unicorn.
By that argument my waste vegetable oil powered cars and trucks are unicorn simply because you don't have the same sources of the fuel as I have. I have run those vehicles for over a decade with hundreds of thousands of miles use. I guess they aren't practical or real.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay635703 View Post
I can drive a unicorn compressed air car for a lower cost per mile than hydrogen.
I'll take that bet any day.

Let's see you do your calculations and I'll do mine.

Let's make the base starting point a solar array that provides electricity to your charge point. Do your calculations from the wall plug to your vehicle wheels via air as your energy carrier. I'll do the same for hydrogen. The calculations will be only for the energy efficiency of transfer. Not material or build costs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay635703 View Post
I guess in my mind its fuel source isn't practical, for me there are exactly zero hydrogen stations here and likely won't be for decades
This is really the crux of the matter at hand but the same could be said for most any cutting edge power source or energy carrier - it's not practical until it is. I grew up helping my grandfather build things out in the jungle that surrounded our family farm. We used hand saws, hammers and augers to build fencing, sheds and bridges. Electricity would have been nice but none was available in the jungle or on the farm. Is this an extreme example? Yes it is. But hydrogen is an extreme example of an energy carrier that has not yet found it's place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay635703 View Post
Now since CNG and hydrogen use the same systems and components, why don't they make the car dual fuel?

It would require nothing additional since a hydrogen motor Is nothing more than an oversized ICE with injection?
The Rasa is fuel cell powered and thus, this discussion is oblique. However, if you watch the video and all that was said, it was emphasized that all components and technologies used were to be "off the shelf". Everything on the Rasa was maximized/minimized so that only an 8.5 Kw fuel cell output would be needed. I am quite sure the builders of the Rasa are familiar with Solid Oxide Fuel Cells (SOFC) but none are currently made in a practical size for the car mainly due to the minimum size needed to run the core at the relatively high temperatures SOFC currently need to run. In the next couple years SOFC catalytic chemistries will allow 500-600 Deg C making smaller fuel cell packs for applications such as these practical. A short time later and 350 Deg C packs will be common. This will allow the Rasa and other vehicles to leverage the CNG infrastructure as its fuel source. To be exact, most any hydrocarbon source, both gas and liquid, could be used. This is not unicorn stuff. I have seen the military prototypes under testing/development here in San Diego. These SOFC power packs will allow electrical production in battle field conditions with whatever fuel sources that can be scrounged up - NG, propane, gasoline, JP-8 or waste vegetable oil.

The Rasa can be MULTI-FUELED in the next coming years as tech grows.

Your air car will still be an air car.
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