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Old 07-27-2016, 01:59 PM   #41 (permalink)
RustyLugNut
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I cannot find open links to the subject of combustion theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChazInMT View Post
The thing I linked to says that H+ does not exist in a fluid, unless it is a melt yer bathtub (Breaking Bad) acid. The H2 isn't going to just spontaneously split....so when added Hydrogen is in your "Flamefront" it is just H2 till it finds some O2 to combine with.

Why are you insisting that H+ can possibly make it to the combustion chamber when presented with facts that say otherwise by outside sources?

You say that there is not enough H2 to combust, well duh. Nobody has ever ever purported that the H2 was the sole fuel source. (Well some have, but lets not go there) But, the gasoline vapors that are present in a 1000:1 ratio to your added H2 do indeed combust. The .1% H2 combines with O2 and combusts too.

I am VERY skeptical that the H2 in the exact moment of its combustion separates into 2 hydrons and goes around knocking apart a bunch of long chain hydrocarbons, which are themselves in the process of being conflagerated.

Where is your link to a non HHO derived paper or something addressing the "Ravaging" "Shredding" effect of H2 on fuel vapor either in the intake plenum or the combustion chamber? I can find a few papers on aerocap additions to pickup trucks written by PhD candidates & such. Certainly something like H2 seeding of an ICE fuel stream for improved performance has been written about.
Most are found in printed textbooks or behind .edu firewalls.

I do appreciate your persistence in working through this but I have to find links that will be understandable and there are few of those as this is a subject that is not of interest to most and is not reduced to a few Wiki's.

And I am not saying the H+ is created in the electrolysis cell and carried for a time to the combustion chamber. It is a gas, H2. But, if you look up the relative energies of dissociation, you will see that H2 has a relatively low energy compared to other diatomic molecules. It easily dissociates to form H+ if enough energy is available. Also look up thermal depolymerization, as that is what is going on with the fuel chain at combustion.

Remember, with combustion, the fuel does not simply break apart and oxidize into H2O and CO2. It needs energy, which breaks it into numerous simpler compounds. And if the local flame front energy is high enough, it can find the thermodynamic pathway to momentarily form more complex compounds. As the pathways are numerous and unpredictable, you have a flame front or flame speed. It doesn't seem possible, but compounds such as hydrazine and acetylene and such are briefly formed. And those are just a few of literally hundreds that are possible. And more are found every year. All of this is based on the laws of thermodynamics and entropy as applied to the chemical reactions of combustion. In all of this is the importance of the numerous radicals. H+ is only one of them. It is formed in the combustion zone.

But, what if it is available before hand? That is what a we can do by adding H2 into the combustion chamber and providing the variables to provide the energy to dissociate it.

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