Why don't you demand courtesy from any and all topics?

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by ChazInMT

The thing I linked to says that H+ does not exist in a fluid, unless it is a melt yer bathtub (Breaking Bad) acid. The H2 isn't going to just spontaneously split....so when added Hydrogen is in your "Flamefront" it is just H2 till it finds some O2 to combine with.

Why are you insisting that H+ can possibly make it to the combustion chamber when presented with facts that say otherwise by outside sources?

You say that there is not enough H2 to combust, well duh. Nobody has ever ever purported that the H2 was the sole fuel source. (Well some have, but lets not go there) But, the gasoline vapors that are present in a 1000:1 ratio to your added H2 do indeed combust. The .1% H2 combines with O2 and combusts too.

I am VERY skeptical that the H2 in the exact moment of its combustion separates into 2 hydrons and goes around knocking apart a bunch of long chain hydrocarbons, which are themselves in the process of being conflagerated.

Where is your link to a non HHO derived paper or something addressing the "Ravaging" "Shredding" effect of H2 on fuel vapor either in the intake plenum or the combustion chamber? I can find a few papers on aerocap additions to pickup trucks written by PhD candidates & such. Certainly something like H2 seeding of an ICE fuel stream for improved performance has been written about.

Most are found in printed textbooks or behind .edu firewalls.

I do appreciate your persistence in working through this but I have to find links that will be understandable and there are few of those as this is a subject that is not of interest to most and is not reduced to a few Wiki's.

And I am not saying the H+ is created in the electrolysis cell and carried for a time to the combustion chamber. It is a gas, H2. But, if you look up the relative energies of dissociation, you will see that H2 has a relatively low energy compared to other diatomic molecules. It easily dissociates to form H+ if enough energy is available. Also look up thermal depolymerization, as that is what is going on with the fuel chain at combustion.

Remember, with combustion, the fuel does not simply break apart and oxidize into H2O and CO2. It needs energy, which breaks it into numerous simpler compounds. And if the local flame front energy is high enough, it can find the thermodynamic pathway to momentarily form more complex compounds. As the pathways are numerous and unpredictable, you have a flame front or flame speed. It doesn't seem possible, but compounds such as hydrazine and acetylene and such are briefly formed. And those are just a few of literally hundreds that are possible. And more are found every year. All of this is based on the laws of thermodynamics and entropy as applied to the chemical reactions of combustion. In all of this is the importance of the numerous radicals. H+ is only one of them. It is formed in the combustion zone.

But, what if it is available before hand? That is what a we can do by adding H2 into the combustion chamber and providing the variables to provide the energy to dissociate it.

[t vago]

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

I used you as an example. Do you understand that.

I couldn't even give two craps about what else you were doing during that time frame. You cannot excuse this behavior. Period. If you really were sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo stressed out due to caring for your terminally ill father, then you should have temporarily stepped away from EcoModder, instead of crapping all over that EGR thread.

Even now, you come across as holier-than-thou, thinking we should just bow down and worship the great and powerful RustyLugNut because he knows oh-so-much-more about hydrogen assisted combustion than every other single member of the species homo sapiens sapiens, and we should just take his every utterance as the True Word Of God. It is you who needs to step off your mile-high pedestal and actually provide some proof of your supposed combustion improvements using hydrogen.

Otherwise, you will still be considered a fraud, no matter how many times you post about how great and benevolent you are to vulnerable schoolkids or helpless homeless vets or your own family members.

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

As you see in my other posts, I don't rip apart threads like I did yours. It was to show to the readers how easy it is to undo a perfectly good post from a well respected member.

And in so doing, you failed to follow the rules you claim to want to follow.

This is why you have a credibility gap. Your continued defensiveness only heightens it.

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

Get over it. No more apologies to you. You have a narcissistic streak that is not becoming of you.

Your apologies, like everything else you post here, are worth absolutely nothing.

Prove your hydrogen work, or shut the hell up.

[t vago]

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

. . . thus you attack the messenger. Really nice of you. Keep spending your energies here. I am not going away based on a few threatening personalities.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! !!

We demand you provide proof of your ridiculous claims, and you think we're "threatening!" How asinine!

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

I do get numerous emails and IM's supporting my position. YOU are certainly not speaking for the rest of the forum.

And neither are YOU.

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

And I spend my Saturday's tutoring students in science and math. It is something I have always felt strongly about and thus spend my time supporting. This weekend was elementary age and some middle school. Science and math go hand in hand and catching them young can spark their desire and intellect.

I then spent my Sunday supporting the Homeless Veterans Stand Down here in San Diego. Our homeless vets suffer severely even with the local killer now in custody.

So..... you disappeared to do relatively low-stress activities, like brainwashin-, er, tutoring students in science and math, or some homeless veteran charity thing.

However, you posted a bunch of crap two years ago, in an attempt to prove your point about HHO not being taken seriously, while at the same time you were engaged in an activity with a somewhat higher level of stress (namely, HELPING to take care of your terminally ill father).

Oh, okay. Seems legit to me.

[t vago]

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

Most are found in printed textbooks or behind .edu firewalls.

I do appreciate your persistence in working through this but I have to find links that will be understandable and there are few of those as this is a subject that is not of interest to most and is not reduced to a few Wiki's.

Why not just provide the names of some of these books, then? Give us a chance to at least look at them.

Here, I'll even provide an example (well, two).

I own a copy of "The Internal Combustion Engine in Theory and Practice: Vol. 1: Thermodynamics, Fluid Flow, Performance". I read sections of it from time to time whenever I have some question about improving engine efficiency.

You can find it on Amazon.com here -> https://www.amazon.com/Internal-Comb...dp/0262700263/

I also own a copy of "The Internal-Combustion Engine in Theory and Practice, Vol. 2: Combustion, Fuels, Materials, Design". This is the volume I crack open whenever I want to take a look about how a given engine modification will affect the engine structure itself.

You can also find it on Amazon.com here -> https://www.amazon.com/Internal-Comb...dp/0262700166/

See how simple that was?

[Xist]

Red pill?
Blue pill?
Jagged little pill?
Chill pill?

[mcrews]

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

. . . thus you attack the messenger. Really nice of you. Keep spending your energies here. I am not going away based on a few threatening personalities.

I do get numerous emails and IM's supporting my position. YOU are certainly not speaking for the rest of the forum..

1. oh...ouch...boy that was a cutting blow!!!
2. you ASSUME that I want to speak for the forum or that I CARE if I speak for the forum.....
3. I DON'T speak for the forum. There are plenty of posters who seem to be speaking for themselves just fine.
4. I am simply addressing the inconsistencies in your comments
5. speaking of.....please PROVE that you have received "numerous emails and IM's supporting my position". given your past 'unproven comments', I am calling BS.

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

. And I spend my Saturday's tutoring students in science and math. It is something I have always felt strongly about and thus spend my time supporting. This weekend was elementary age and some middle school. Science and math go hand in hand and catching them young can spark their desire and intellect.

I then spent my Sunday supporting the Homeless Veterans Stand Down here in San Diego. Our homeless vets suffer severely even with the local killer now in custody.

Your desire to continue posting scathing and implied put downs is really very unbecoming.

first, you crapped up my easy reading experience by adding non-topical material (hhhh) to a thread on 'curtesy'.
one of your 'pet peeves'!

THen you come back and tell us about your recent 'sainthood' experience.

You are an oxy-moron aren't you???

Here, try this......
You get busted for off-tracking this thread.
You read the post.
(hopefully) your mind processes that 'upps he's right'!!!!!
if in fact, you do have this seemingly non-narcissist side, you would laugh and say, "OK, ha ha, you caught me. I'll try better"!

But no, not to let yourself down, you continue with the HHHH conversation.

All that can be gathered from this is:
you ARE a narcissist.

Much like A-B-A testing, you have proven to be dishonest.

I call bs on your 'sainthood experience'

[ChazInMT]

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

Most are found in printed textbooks or behind .edu firewalls.

Nice cop out.

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

I do appreciate your persistence in working through this but I have to find links that will be understandable and there are few of those as this is a subject that is not of interest to most and is not reduced to a few Wiki's.

Try me, if I can figure out what the microscopic cross section of absorption means I think I can figure out anything you throw at me. Show me where this information is. It can't be a secret. If you really appreciate me you'll show me where it says what you say somewhere that isn't a wretched hive of HHO proponents all nodding in agreement over something they really haven't a clue about.

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

And I am not saying the H+ is created in the electrolysis cell and carried for a time to the combustion chamber. It is a gas, H2. But, if you look up the relative energies of dissociation, you will see that H2 has a relatively low energy compared to other diatomic molecules. It easily dissociates to form H+ if enough energy is available.

And I'm saying this is BS. It Burns...It Oxidizes and that's that. There is no "High Energy" specifically breaking apart the minuscule amount of H2 you are adding and turning it into some sort of crazed ion atom that shreds vast numbers of hydrocarbon molecules in nanoseconds. That's just patent BS you use on people who are not able to understand better. What about all the hydrogen that is brought to the equation in the gasoline???? Why doesn't it "Dissociate and form H+" too there is like 9,000 times more hydrogen in the gasoline than the added hydrogen you are putting into the system.

Show me an outside source that states this.....quit telling me it's "Just something I read somewhere, so it's true, trust me."

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

But, what if it is available before hand? That is what a we can do by adding H2 into the combustion chamber and providing the variables to provide the energy to dissociate it.

Again, you are adding 1 part in 9,000. It does NOTHING but burn to succinctly answer your question. And WTF variables are you "providing"? Seriously. Do you even hear yourself. You are like the poster child for pseudoscience BS lingo. Why dazzle with brilliance when you can baffle with BS.

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

Also look up thermal depolymerization, as that is what is going on with the fuel chain at combustion.

Don't do this again. Why do you ask me to look things up to prove a point you're trying to make? I'm not a 12 year old in a class that needs to learn this. I'm a skeptic of your information and I'm asking you to prove yourself. You look it up and provide a link and explain how it supports your argument that H+ is being created from only the 1 part of 9,000 hydrogen that you are adding.

Are you capable of answering questions? Or do you just keep trying to talk your way out of this by adding more and more layers of gobbily gook lingo hoping we give up and stop trying to let facts stand in the way of a good fallacy.

I am asking you to specifically back up "Facts" you have stated, I am not asking you to look up or prove anything other than that. You say these things, prove them.

[mcrews]

Originally Posted by ChazInMT

Nice cop out.

I am asking you to specifically back up "Facts" you have stated, I am not asking you to look up or prove anything other than that. You say these things, prove them.

well.....at least he is consistent.....

[oil pan 4]

The hho believers can always do everything but prove it works in the real world.

[Grant-53]

Working in customer service for ten years I got to witness a wide range of personalities in action. The quickest way to make someone angry is to insist on telling them something they know is not true. It is an insult to their intelligence and their integrity. The corollary is that a customer is always right--until politely explained otherwise. Now there are adequate research papers and studies on motor fuels and chemistry of hydrogen. I recommend the papers in the Society of Automotive Engineers library; authoritative if pricey. The major automotive companies have done high speed photography in test cylinders to study combustion. Making and burning hydrogen like ethanol is still a net loss operation so far. I suspect the best option for renewable motor fuel is plant oil blends. As for name calling we have a saying for that too. "Ah, I've been called worse things by better men."