Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum - EcoModder.com - View Single Post - Can I use a GENERATOR to power an Electric car directly?

Nerys · 08-15-2008, 03:11 PM

"but I personnely think you are better off moving or changing jobs if you spend $350 a month on gas."

Ok I am seriously curious. WHY do people always suggest this? The "cost" to move is greater than all the fuel I will use in a lifetime by many orders of magnitude?

"moving" is not even "remotely" a twinkle in the eye an affordable answer. I could DOUBLE my distance to work and moving is still so much more expensive as to literally be laughable???

Changing jobs is also not an option. Its a family business and integrated into out household. While when I have a second job I do get one thats close (many times close enough that I use a bicycle to get there) but my primary job is fixed.

Also even if I could. Technology is supposed to work for me not the other way around. :-)

"At the very least spend $2k and get yourself a small car for commuting! You'll half your gas prices and the car will have paid for itself in the first year!"

Well I do not have $2k but "I AM" looking for a cheaper ie higher mpg car. I have been seeking a metro for some time now within my budget. 45+mpg is very enticing.

I got my 300D for the same reason and it worked. I paid $1800 for it and it paid for itself inside of 1 year (until Diesel prices went through the roof for NO financial reasons except greed) :-)

But even at 45mpg I would still be spending some $200 a month in fuel.

I am a bit of an idealist and a dreamer. The ever optimistic type. "I CAN SEE" how electric cars can LITERALLY change the way things work on this planet.

Its not about saving the environment or being clean. Thats a "side" effect and nothing more. a Very nice side effect but still just a side effect.

The real impact of an electric car is not even Energy Independence (which it will give us in spades)

the REAL impact of an electric car is INDIVIDUAL ENERGY INDEPENDENCE and the shift in "real world power" that goes along with that.

Electric cars can fundamentally alter the "power structure" of the world and I do not mean electrical power folks :-)

It will be the FIRST massive scale transfer of power back from the wealthy to the people where it belongs since the inception of this nation.

If you just think about the national and global IMPACT of an electric car economy. Think about all the secondary effects and all the secondary tertiary etc.. etc.. effects it will have on out economy. It quite literally could be the most powerful change in the recent history of mankind. More power than the Discover of Nuclear Weapons!

Nukes made COUNTRIES more powerful. Electric Cars make "PEOPLE" more powerful.

When you consider to just what kind of EXTENT this will take the power shift you quickly begin to see why people in power so desperately want to crush the very idea of practical affordable electric cars.

The electric car tech is over 10 years old. Late Ninties. There is NO REASON we can not build a sub $12k electric car "right now"

I mean consider this. Using "NICHE" market components ie NOT mass produced (on the scale or an automobile) parts I can get a controller for what ? $2500-$3000? a Good Electric motor for what? $3500-$4000? Maybe a $1000 for a charger.

The primary parts of an electric car are right there. $8000

A car is $2000 for a NICE one used. So far we are at $10k and we have not TOUCHED "mass produced" yet.

I find it mind boggling that we can do this so CHEAPLY.

People do not realize that "solid state" components do NOT scale the same way as normal parts and objects do.

The economy of scale graph for solid state components ramps up EXTREMELY quickly.

Consider LED's If I went to Radio Shack to buy a single white LED its gonna cost me $3 or $4 dollars.

Yet this past christmas I bought a string of 70 blue and white LED's from Target for $7

Just that "little" bit of upscaling so dramatically reduced the prices of the components .....

Electric cars "WILL" scale up exactly the same way and thats one of the things that scares the living crap out of auto makers.

SO why no cars? Well you all know the answer. Batteries.

Well we have those as well. You see all we needed was someone to dump some SERIOUS money into the R&D side. The advancements are there. and there EASY. it just takes MONEY. GM solved this problem inside of TWO FREAKING YEARS Of tackling the problem!

a battery that would last 250,000 miles would drive a two person car 120-150 miles and cost LESS than an engine to replace. $4500.

For the "MOST" part all of the initial "problems" of an electric car were SOLVED.

Add that $4500 battery pack into my above figures and your now looking at UNDER $15k for an electric car plus maybe a grand in labor if you do a lot of it yourself.

IF WE CAN DO IT FOR $15k There is ABSOLUTELY no reason they can not make a stripped down basic electric car for under $12k brand new.

Especially since the individual price of these components will PLUMMET as they ramp up the economies of scale on it into mass production.

Imagine what these individual components would COST if they were making MILLIONS of them instead of a few thousand of them. That $4500 battery pack would be $500 in a few short years.

At $500 a pop I could throw 8-10 sets of them in my van and get over a 1000miles on a charge.

Alas we can not have those batteries. They are tied up in a patent which does not expire till 2015 and chevron refuses to license them.

I am trying to find a way to get some electric vehicle of some type into the hands of people like "ME" ie the "MASSES" of people who can not afford to "buy" a new car like a prius which for the most part is a rip off.

THATS why I keep trying. I figure if I can get an affordable electric car into "enough" people's hands it will cascade and take off from there like wildfire.

I KNOW how to FORCE auto makers to produce electric cars. The problem is orchestrating it.

All we have to do is STOP buying new cars. If we could reach a critical mass of new car buyers choosing instead to buy USED and making it KNOWN to auto makers that your massive decline in sales is BECAUSE they do not have an AFFORDABLE electric car available they will get the message and quickly.

I would love to see chevron go out of business as people enmass stop buying chevron/texaco fuel. Make it clear to them. If you depend on fuel your going out of business so you better start licensing those batteries if you want to survive.

Problem is a usable Electric car is not one with a 40mile range. How to break that barrier. I just do not know. I hope every day for a breakthrough from EESTOR or someone else. Alas I think its the same old same old. ITs not a matter of invention its a matter of DOLLARS and the only ones with the DOLLARS (auto makers) are also the ones LEAST interested in doing anything at all in this arena.

EESTOR gives me hope because they are ONE remotely unlikely alternative to pure dollars and thats "luck" ie pure invention. Its the LEAST viable solution but they might just have it.

In fact EESTOR has the potential to FAR upset even an electric car infrastructure. With batteries that have NO effective lifespan Power Stations themselves become LESS important especially when combined with the potential of CHEAP solar from companies like NANO SOLAR selling panels at 90cents a watt!

COMBINE two such technologies with an electric car infrastructure and THE VERY NATURE OF POWER as we know it changes and not the electrical kind of power.

So I apologize for the rambling but the potential change gives me hope so I keep fighting for it. Keep trying. One of the easiest ways to GO for this kind of changes it so DO this kind of change myself.

The technology needs to adapt to ME not the other way around. I do not want to move (even if I could) I do not want to change jobs (even if I could) I do not want to use smaller cars etc.. etc.. Electric cars means I do not have to compromise to gain the benefits (a fully realized electric car economy)

If I can make the technology work for me then it can work for nearly anyone!

Its coming. I know this. I am just a bit impatient in waiting for it :-)

08-15-2008, 03:11 PM	#22 (permalink)
Nerys Grrr :-) Join Date: May 2008 Location: Levittown PA Posts: 800 Cherokee - '88 Jeep Cherokee 90 day: 19.44 mpg (US) Ryo-Ohki - '94 Geo Metro Xfi 90 day: 50.15 mpg (US) Vger 2 - '00 Plymouth Grand Voyager SE Ninja - '89 Geo Tracker 90 day: 30.27 mpg (US) Thanks: 12 Thanked 31 Times in 25 Posts	"but I personnely think you are better off moving or changing jobs if you spend $350 a month on gas." Ok I am seriously curious. WHY do people always suggest this? The "cost" to move is greater than all the fuel I will use in a lifetime by many orders of magnitude? "moving" is not even "remotely" a twinkle in the eye an affordable answer. I could DOUBLE my distance to work and moving is still so much more expensive as to literally be laughable??? Changing jobs is also not an option. Its a family business and integrated into out household. While when I have a second job I do get one thats close (many times close enough that I use a bicycle to get there) but my primary job is fixed. Also even if I could. Technology is supposed to work for me not the other way around. :-) "At the very least spend $2k and get yourself a small car for commuting! You'll half your gas prices and the car will have paid for itself in the first year!" Well I do not have $2k but "I AM" looking for a cheaper ie higher mpg car. I have been seeking a metro for some time now within my budget. 45+mpg is very enticing. I got my 300D for the same reason and it worked. I paid $1800 for it and it paid for itself inside of 1 year (until Diesel prices went through the roof for NO financial reasons except greed) :-) But even at 45mpg I would still be spending some $200 a month in fuel. I am a bit of an idealist and a dreamer. The ever optimistic type. "I CAN SEE" how electric cars can LITERALLY change the way things work on this planet. Its not about saving the environment or being clean. Thats a "side" effect and nothing more. a Very nice side effect but still just a side effect. The real impact of an electric car is not even Energy Independence (which it will give us in spades) the REAL impact of an electric car is INDIVIDUAL ENERGY INDEPENDENCE and the shift in "real world power" that goes along with that. Electric cars can fundamentally alter the "power structure" of the world and I do not mean electrical power folks :-) It will be the FIRST massive scale transfer of power back from the wealthy to the people where it belongs since the inception of this nation. If you just think about the national and global IMPACT of an electric car economy. Think about all the secondary effects and all the secondary tertiary etc.. etc.. effects it will have on out economy. It quite literally could be the most powerful change in the recent history of mankind. More power than the Discover of Nuclear Weapons! Nukes made COUNTRIES more powerful. Electric Cars make "PEOPLE" more powerful. When you consider to just what kind of EXTENT this will take the power shift you quickly begin to see why people in power so desperately want to crush the very idea of practical affordable electric cars. The electric car tech is over 10 years old. Late Ninties. There is NO REASON we can not build a sub $12k electric car "right now" I mean consider this. Using "NICHE" market components ie NOT mass produced (on the scale or an automobile) parts I can get a controller for what ? $2500-$3000? a Good Electric motor for what? $3500-$4000? Maybe a $1000 for a charger. The primary parts of an electric car are right there. $8000 A car is $2000 for a NICE one used. So far we are at $10k and we have not TOUCHED "mass produced" yet. I find it mind boggling that we can do this so CHEAPLY. People do not realize that "solid state" components do NOT scale the same way as normal parts and objects do. The economy of scale graph for solid state components ramps up EXTREMELY quickly. Consider LED's If I went to Radio Shack to buy a single white LED its gonna cost me $3 or $4 dollars. Yet this past christmas I bought a string of 70 blue and white LED's from Target for $7 Just that "little" bit of upscaling so dramatically reduced the prices of the components ..... Electric cars "WILL" scale up exactly the same way and thats one of the things that scares the living crap out of auto makers. SO why no cars? Well you all know the answer. Batteries. Well we have those as well. You see all we needed was someone to dump some SERIOUS money into the R&D side. The advancements are there. and there EASY. it just takes MONEY. GM solved this problem inside of TWO FREAKING YEARS Of tackling the problem! a battery that would last 250,000 miles would drive a two person car 120-150 miles and cost LESS than an engine to replace. $4500. For the "MOST" part all of the initial "problems" of an electric car were SOLVED. Add that $4500 battery pack into my above figures and your now looking at UNDER $15k for an electric car plus maybe a grand in labor if you do a lot of it yourself. IF WE CAN DO IT FOR $15k There is ABSOLUTELY no reason they can not make a stripped down basic electric car for under $12k brand new. Especially since the individual price of these components will PLUMMET as they ramp up the economies of scale on it into mass production. Imagine what these individual components would COST if they were making MILLIONS of them instead of a few thousand of them. That $4500 battery pack would be $500 in a few short years. At $500 a pop I could throw 8-10 sets of them in my van and get over a 1000miles on a charge. Alas we can not have those batteries. They are tied up in a patent which does not expire till 2015 and chevron refuses to license them. I am trying to find a way to get some electric vehicle of some type into the hands of people like "ME" ie the "MASSES" of people who can not afford to "buy" a new car like a prius which for the most part is a rip off. THATS why I keep trying. I figure if I can get an affordable electric car into "enough" people's hands it will cascade and take off from there like wildfire. I KNOW how to FORCE auto makers to produce electric cars. The problem is orchestrating it. All we have to do is STOP buying new cars. If we could reach a critical mass of new car buyers choosing instead to buy USED and making it KNOWN to auto makers that your massive decline in sales is BECAUSE they do not have an AFFORDABLE electric car available they will get the message and quickly. I would love to see chevron go out of business as people enmass stop buying chevron/texaco fuel. Make it clear to them. If you depend on fuel your going out of business so you better start licensing those batteries if you want to survive. Problem is a usable Electric car is not one with a 40mile range. How to break that barrier. I just do not know. I hope every day for a breakthrough from EESTOR or someone else. Alas I think its the same old same old. ITs not a matter of invention its a matter of DOLLARS and the only ones with the DOLLARS (auto makers) are also the ones LEAST interested in doing anything at all in this arena. EESTOR gives me hope because they are ONE remotely unlikely alternative to pure dollars and thats "luck" ie pure invention. Its the LEAST viable solution but they might just have it. In fact EESTOR has the potential to FAR upset even an electric car infrastructure. With batteries that have NO effective lifespan Power Stations themselves become LESS important especially when combined with the potential of CHEAP solar from companies like NANO SOLAR selling panels at 90cents a watt! COMBINE two such technologies with an electric car infrastructure and THE VERY NATURE OF POWER as we know it changes and not the electrical kind of power. So I apologize for the rambling but the potential change gives me hope so I keep fighting for it. Keep trying. One of the easiest ways to GO for this kind of changes it so DO this kind of change myself. The technology needs to adapt to ME not the other way around. I do not want to move (even if I could) I do not want to change jobs (even if I could) I do not want to use smaller cars etc.. etc.. Electric cars means I do not have to compromise to gain the benefits (a fully realized electric car economy) If I can make the technology work for me then it can work for nearly anyone! Its coming. I know this. I am just a bit impatient in waiting for it :-)