[Ecky]

Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy

1. When buying an Insight, what are all the things I should be looking out for when inspecting the car?

2. On his thread, and others, there seemed to be A LOT of maintenance required for the Insight. Compared to how worry free my Civic has been, this is slightly worrisome. Is this typical for Gen 1 Insights, or are y'all just buying beaters and restoring them?

Something to be aware of is that if there's even something tiny wrong with my car, I tear it apart and make it "right". That said, these are some common things to look out for:

-Commonly these cars have a minor water leak above the passenger seatbelt. This can result in a musty smell in the car, and/or the rear latch electrical button not functioning (there's a connector running to it that's near the passenger seatbelt which gets wet). There's a "proper" fix, but I chose to run a bead of caulk along the seam on the roof there, figuring it might very minorly improve aerodynamics too. That fixed my leak. Or you could just ignore it and open the hatch with your key instead.

-Eventually many of the rear hatch motors strip their gear. IC has a 3d-printed replacement for ~$5 which won't strip again. You could also just ignore it and use your key.

-The buttons on the cluster for resetting trip distance eventually wear out and get very hard to push - you have to mash them. A guy on IC sells a replacement for all of them for ~$15 I think, but you have to take your cluster out to get to them. Or, you can ignore it and just mash the buttons.

-The driver side window switch in most cars fails eventually. IC sells a 3d printed replacement for ~$5. I consider this a pretty important fix - being able to open your window . Having taken it apart, it looks to me like Honda tried to shave a sixteenth of an ounce by using less plastic, and it doesn't typically hold up for 2 decades like most Honda parts.

-My driver and passenger power locks failed. My understanding is this is not at all common, and can happen in any car. Mine is 18 years old after all, with a quarter million miles. The replacement lock actuators were less than $20 and not hard to replace.

-The EGR passages get gummed up after a while and need to be cleaned. This happens to any and all Hondas (probably all engines), but is more of a noticeable problem on the motors with lean burn since it can cause them to be a bit jerky (combustion has to be much more carefully controlled at very lean air fuel ratios). You'd likely want to clean these on a Civic hybrid or VX/HX as well. Neglecting this won't leave you on the side of the road or hurt mileage, but makes the car less pleasant to drive.

-The headlights eventually get sun-faded. This will happen to any car.

-The rear engine mount in these commonly break before 200k miles. They're complex mounts designed to absorb some of the extra vibrations the 3 cylinder motors make, and there are no 3rd party replacements. That said, on my previous Honda (90's Del Sol), all 3 of the major motor mounts eventually failed, and on my Insight, only the rear typically ever fails. You might even find your Civic's mounts have some cracks, but you wouldn't notice it as much since it has a smoother motor. This is "normal" maintenance.

-If the engine mount goes, sometimes the two ground straps on the transmission pull free and need to be replaced, because the engine can move forward and backward a little bit more in the bay. Ground straps are cheap and easy to replace.

-I recommend replacing the oil pan bolt with a Fumoto valve, because the lightweight magnesium pan is easier to strip than a steel one. Many never put these valves on and instead opt to do their own oil changes. As a rule, never take an Insight to a chain like Jiffy Lube, because they don't bother to check the oil pan torque specs and will probably ruin your pan.

-It's common for these motors at high miles to leak a very small amount of oil around the timing chain cover. It's almost always so little you won't see a change in the dipstick between oil changes, but it can leave spots on your driveway. Don't worry about this.

-The original hybrid battery is usually good for ~15 years +/- 2-3 in a cold climate, and 10 years +/- 2-3 in a very hot climate. Many southern cars had their original batteries replaced under warranty around the 10 year mark. Mine was a southern car which I moved up north, so at 18 years, the 2nd battery was still in great shape. 3rd party batteries generally don't last quite as long as the originals, but Bumblebee are regarded as the best of the alternatives. Hopefully we'll have a superior, cheaper lithium alternative before too long.

-On many manuals, 2nd gear develops a grind when downshifting from a higher gear. More rarely this can happen to 1st as well. This can be lived with, fixed for zero cost (have to get the transmission out and take it apart), or Scott Hicks (sp?) sells transmissions which have had all of their bearings and synchros replaced and modified so they never develop the grind, for $800, so they're basically zero-mile gearboxes good for half a million miles or more.


Definitely get a second opinion, but if I were buying an Insight, I would:

-Check for rust on some of the few items that can rust, because nobody bothers to undercoat an aluminum car and the few steel bits can still be eaten by salt. Look at the exhaust, the catalytic converter, and the brake & fuel lines. In a car that isn't from the salt belt they'll all probably still look brand new at this point.

-Check to see if the transmission grinds. You'll know it because it'll make a very distinct noise if you shift quickly from 3rd (or a higher gear) to 2nd. This isn't a deal breaker for me by any stretch, but it can be a point used to talk the value of the car down.

-Above all else, bully the IMA battery in a test drive. Use a lot of assist and regen and see if you can make it throw a light. A very strong battery should be able to assist lightly for 5+ minutes, and shouldn't move more than a bar or two with a brisk acceleration to highway speeds. A bad battery is an easy -$1000 or more from the car's value.

-As with any car, make sure it doesn't pulse when braking (though this is cheap to fix), check the tires to see if they have good tread or any irregular wear suggesting it would need an alignment, check to make sure it has RE92 or other good LRR tires (non LRR tires make the car a bear to drive), and check the color of the coolant and oil to make sure they aren't mixing - coolant or oil would look like chocolate milk if so.

All of the other stuff is just details.