Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-16-2024, 12:13 AM   #1 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 5,028

ND Miata - '15 Mazda MX-5 Special Package
90 day: 39.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,880
Thanked 2,525 Times in 1,561 Posts
Ecky considering another Insight

Recently I've taken interest in getting another Insight. Fuel prices are on the rise, and 58mpg highway from the convertible just doesn't cut it for the occasional weekend trip. Plus, there have been some interesting developments in the Insight community.

Example:

https://www.insightcentral.net/threa...oldest#replies


Essentially, what's available now is the ability to use lithium batteries, and to fully control the IMA (hybrid) system. It can even be operated without an engine running, or even attached - it's fully independent from the engine ECU. 12kwh of lithium batteries fit in the same space as the OEM ~1kwh nickel battery, for very little extra weight, and could give something like 2 hours of continuous mild electric assist. I foresee 200mpg+ tanks being possible on road trips, with negligible electricity use. The price is also reasonable, with everything (except the car) coming in potentially under $3,000usd.

I've begun inquiring locally about batteries and looking for a suitable car to build. Unfortunately, Insights are extremely rare in New Zealand, with perhaps only 25 ever having been imported here.

~

Further down the road, it's possible to change the engine out while maintaining a fully functional hybrid system, that can even stop/start a donor engine. Any Honda L series should bolt up, possibly even including the 1.5L turbo in the recent Civic and Accord, or the Atkinson cycle 4 pot from Honda's other hybrids. I'd also have my pick of any L series transmission to bolt to the other side of the transmission. The CR-Z's 6 speed looks promising, though it would be in want of a taller final drive gear.

A wild idea, but with an adapter plate between engine and transmission, a Honda K series turbo plug-in hybrid would even be possible, though I have no idea what I'd do with it.

  Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Ecky For This Useful Post:
freebeard (04-16-2024), pgfpro (04-16-2024), Piotrsko (04-16-2024), Piwoslaw (04-16-2024), rmay635703 (04-16-2024)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 04-16-2024, 12:04 PM   #2 (permalink)
home of the odd vehicles
 
rmay635703's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere in WI
Posts: 3,886

Silver - '10 Chevy Cobalt XFE
Thanks: 503
Thanked 865 Times in 652 Posts
Were the insights there all originally in Japan then imported?
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2024, 12:36 PM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
cowmeat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,659

Princess Carriage - '20 Ford Explorer Limited

Silver - '22 Ford Maverick Hybrid XLT w/tow pkg
Maverick Hybrids
90 day: 41.3 mpg (US)
Thanks: 128
Thanked 764 Times in 461 Posts
Quote:
Recently I've taken interest in getting another Insight.
I pass a crappy old silver one on the way home from work a lot, and it made me check the South Carolina area to see if any cheap ones are available. I wouldn't mind using one as a DD again and sell the Maverick for way more than I paid for it. I only saw one G1 Insight in the area and the guy wanted like 7k for it. I think it was an automatic too
__________________

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to cowmeat For This Useful Post:
Ecky (04-16-2024)
Old 04-16-2024, 04:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 5,028

ND Miata - '15 Mazda MX-5 Special Package
90 day: 39.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,880
Thanked 2,525 Times in 1,561 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay635703 View Post
Were the insights there all originally in Japan then imported?
That's correct, there were no "NZDM" Insights. I'm curious to see what the differences are - I know they're generally better equipped.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2024, 12:02 AM   #5 (permalink)
Too many cars
 
Gasoline Fumes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York State
Posts: 1,576

CRXFi - '88 Honda CRX XFi

Insight 256 - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Gen-1 Insights

Insight 5342 (no IMA) - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Gen-1 Insights
90 day: 66.3 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,334
Thanked 787 Times in 469 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
That's correct, there were no "NZDM" Insights. I'm curious to see what the differences are - I know they're generally better equipped.
Navigation was available, but pretty outdated by now!

More interesting is the different gearing! Shorter 3rd gear and final drive.
https://www-honda-co-jp.translate.go..._x_tr_pto=wapp
__________________
2000 Honda Insight
2000 Honda Insight
2000 Honda Insight
2006 Honda Insight (parts car)
1988 Honda CRXFi
1994 Geo Metro

  Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2024, 12:26 AM   #6 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 12,584
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,636 Times in 1,459 Posts
I still remember when you were lurking about taking your US-spec Insight with you to New Zealand. Most likely shipping from Japan, if you could still find one there at those JDM car auction sites, would've been cheaper than taking yours to New Zealand. But anyway, AFAIK it was already eligible for import despite the LHD cockpit. I'm only uncertain about the US-spec symmetrical headlamps being allowed there.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2024, 01:19 AM   #7 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 5,028

ND Miata - '15 Mazda MX-5 Special Package
90 day: 39.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,880
Thanked 2,525 Times in 1,561 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gasoline Fumes View Post
Navigation was available, but pretty outdated by now!

More interesting is the different gearing! Shorter 3rd gear and final drive.
https://www-honda-co-jp.translate.go..._x_tr_pto=wapp
This is the first I've seen of them having a different final drive ratio. That's probably for the best in such a hilly country.

Here's a comparison of the gear ratios, if that is in fact true:






It essentially resolves my only gripe with the stock North American version, which is that the gear spacing was uneven, and 1-2-3 were wide while 3-4-5 were closely spaced.

Cruising at 100kph, USDM would be 2120rpm, whereas JDM would be 2240rpm.

Shifting at 2000rpm, the shift points would be:

USDM:
1>2 - 19kph (12mph)
2>3 - 38kph (24mph)
3>4 - 61kph (38mph)
4>5 - 77kph (49mph)

JDM:
1>2 - 18kph (11mph)
2>3 - 36kph (22mph)
3>4 - 54kph (34mph)
4>5 - 74kph (46mph)

Torque would be 6% higher in each gear, except 3rd, which would have 12% taller gearing. I wonder if 3rd gear was changed for the US market to beat the EPA test?
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ecky For This Useful Post:
Gasoline Fumes (04-18-2024)
Old 04-18-2024, 01:37 AM   #8 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 5,028

ND Miata - '15 Mazda MX-5 Special Package
90 day: 39.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,880
Thanked 2,525 Times in 1,561 Posts
A further bit of math - accelerating from 1500rpm, stock, is 60ft-lbs from the engine, plus 36ft-lbs totaling 96ft-lb.

With lithium, that assist is increased to 72ft-lbs, totaling 132ft-lbs.

Assuming accelerating in 3rd gear, which is the typical passing gear on the highway, along with 12% shorter gearing, it would feel like the the stock car has 148ft-lbs, or 54% better acceleration.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2024, 08:21 PM   #9 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
mpg_numbers_guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: VA
Posts: 1,370

Toby - '13 Toyota Prius C
Team Toyota
90 day: 62.77 mpg (US)

Daz - '15 Mazda 3 iTouring w/ Tech Package
Team Mazda
90 day: 38.2 mpg (US)
Thanks: 324
Thanked 483 Times in 368 Posts
I wondered how long you'd last before you wanted to get another Insight. It's been 15 months since I sold mine; I miss it but 60-70 mpg in the Prius C and < $3/gal gas with discounts isn't motivating enough for me to get another one. What are NZ laws like on importing cars? Any restrictions on usage, rarity, or age?

Lithium conversion is definitely tempting, and it looks like the relative simplicity of the Insight's system is allowing it to be more reliable and robust than the attempts at converting the Prius to run on lithium.
__________________
2013 Toyota Prius C 2 (my car)


2015 Mazda 3 iTouring Hatchback w/ Tech Package (wife's car)
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mpg_numbers_guy For This Useful Post:
Ecky (04-19-2024)
Old 04-18-2024, 10:06 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 5,028

ND Miata - '15 Mazda MX-5 Special Package
90 day: 39.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,880
Thanked 2,525 Times in 1,561 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy View Post
I wondered how long you'd last before you wanted to get another Insight. It's been 15 months since I sold mine; I miss it but 60-70 mpg in the Prius C and < $3/gal gas with discounts isn't motivating enough for me to get another one. What are NZ laws like on importing cars? Any restrictions on usage, rarity, or age?

Lithium conversion is definitely tempting, and it looks like the relative simplicity of the Insight's system is allowing it to be more reliable and robust than the attempts at converting the Prius to run on lithium.
I'll probably keep the Miat too. Car insurance is like $6 per month so there's not much incentive not to have multiple cars. On the other hand, fuel here is closer to $7.50US per gallon of regular, and premium is around 10-15% more than that.

As far as imports, vehicles newer than a certain point need to have traction control and be right hand drive, but the Insight is old enough to be exempt from these. Additionally, any vehicle going on the road needs to pass an inspection. Many modifications would fail a car, but nearly all stock cars, in good working order, from any market, will pass. Generally if it's good enough to be sold in Japan or Europe or North America, it's good enough for here.

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ecky For This Useful Post:
mpg_numbers_guy (04-25-2024)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com