Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum - EcoModder.com - View Single Post - America finally gets a 1-passenger commute

cajunfj40 · 01-09-2019, 11:49 AM

Hello all,

School bus safety re: no seatbelts as brought up by Angel And The Wolf and Piotrsko in response to redpoint5

From here: https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/school-bus-safety
"NHTSA decided the best way to provide crash protection to passengers of large school buses is through a concept called “compartmentalization.” This requires that the interior of large buses protect children without them needing to buckle up. Through compartmentalization, children are protected from crashes by strong, closely-spaced seats that have energy-absorbing seat backs."

That's those tall ugly grey vinyl seats. The basic idea is that the small kids are safer on average this way, considering other potential scenarios that require rapid bus evacuation, etc. The risk of a highly regulated driver of a highly regulated/visible vehicle crashing in such a way that the compartmentalization is insufficient to prevent X number of deaths/serious injury was judged to be less than the risk of kids being stuck in a burning bus/bus stuck on a train track/other because they're all belted in and panicking and can't undo them fast enough. At least, that's how it has been explained to me in the past, and the research to date seems to back it up.

The NTSB seems to now be recommending seatbelts (see here: https://abcnews.go.com/beta-story-co...ry?id=55367225) in new buses, though, after a few recent crashes. Trouble is, that seems a knee-jerk "fix the equipment" solution to an actual "fix the system" problem - negligent (cellphone, excessive speed by driver with documented negligence history)/impaired(seizure in driver with known seizure disorder) drivers allowed to keep driving due to poor oversight. (see here: https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-rele...R20180522.aspx) The NHTSA is apparently going to study the issue, but I can't find the relevant link.

I've been rabbit-holing - trolling the NHTSA.gov crash test results database - lately on crash safety in cars, both airbag and non-airbag. A 1984 4-cylinder Jeep CJ-7 surprisingly does better in a 35mph frontal crash than my 2000 Ford Explorer or 1999 Chevy Prizm. Lower HIC's, lower chest G's, similar femur loadings. A Fiero does even better. So there are some viable alternatives to airbags present in older designs. It would be nice if automakers were allowed to sell crash safety systems that work without electronic systems like airbags, though the electronic part seems moot if we're talking EV's.

Seatbelts, though - wear them. Other than in non-motorcycle vehicles like school buses with the rest of the safety systems surrounding the non-belted seats, your 3-point seatbelt, properly worn, is the best piece of safety equipment you have if a crash occurs. Add proper crumple zones, a collapsing steering column, and appropriate dash padding, and one can fare quite well.

This Solo looks an awful lot like a Corbin Sparrow, with a bit more refinement. I need 4 seats with belts in whatever I drive, though I could plausibly get by with 3 (myself and 2 kids) considering we take the wife's car if we're all going somewhere.

01-09-2019, 11:49 AM	#37 (permalink)
cajunfj40 Lurking Eco-wall-o-texter Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: MPLS, MN area Posts: 128 Thanks: 0 Thanked 65 Times in 45 Posts	School buses and seatbelts Hello all, School bus safety re: no seatbelts as brought up by Angel And The Wolf and Piotrsko in response to redpoint5 From here: https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/school-bus-safety "NHTSA decided the best way to provide crash protection to passengers of large school buses is through a concept called “compartmentalization.” This requires that the interior of large buses protect children without them needing to buckle up. Through compartmentalization, children are protected from crashes by strong, closely-spaced seats that have energy-absorbing seat backs." That's those tall ugly grey vinyl seats. The basic idea is that the small kids are safer on average this way, considering other potential scenarios that require rapid bus evacuation, etc. The risk of a highly regulated driver of a highly regulated/visible vehicle crashing in such a way that the compartmentalization is insufficient to prevent X number of deaths/serious injury was judged to be less than the risk of kids being stuck in a burning bus/bus stuck on a train track/other because they're all belted in and panicking and can't undo them fast enough. At least, that's how it has been explained to me in the past, and the research to date seems to back it up. The NTSB seems to now be recommending seatbelts (see here: https://abcnews.go.com/beta-story-co...ry?id=55367225) in new buses, though, after a few recent crashes. Trouble is, that seems a knee-jerk "fix the equipment" solution to an actual "fix the system" problem - negligent (cellphone, excessive speed by driver with documented negligence history)/impaired(seizure in driver with known seizure disorder) drivers allowed to keep driving due to poor oversight. (see here: https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-rele...R20180522.aspx) The NHTSA is apparently going to study the issue, but I can't find the relevant link. I've been rabbit-holing - trolling the NHTSA.gov crash test results database - lately on crash safety in cars, both airbag and non-airbag. A 1984 4-cylinder Jeep CJ-7 surprisingly does better in a 35mph frontal crash than my 2000 Ford Explorer or 1999 Chevy Prizm. Lower HIC's, lower chest G's, similar femur loadings. A Fiero does even better. So there are some viable alternatives to airbags present in older designs. It would be nice if automakers were allowed to sell crash safety systems that work without electronic systems like airbags, though the electronic part seems moot if we're talking EV's. Seatbelts, though - wear them. Other than in non-motorcycle vehicles like school buses with the rest of the safety systems surrounding the non-belted seats, your 3-point seatbelt, properly worn, is the best piece of safety equipment you have if a crash occurs. Add proper crumple zones, a collapsing steering column, and appropriate dash padding, and one can fare quite well. This Solo looks an awful lot like a Corbin Sparrow, with a bit more refinement. I need 4 seats with belts in whatever I drive, though I could plausibly get by with 3 (myself and 2 kids) considering we take the wife's car if we're all going somewhere.