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Old 01-08-2019, 02:49 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Thanks for bringing this up. That must explain the allure of engineering a 3-wheeler then. I'd do the same thing because finding loopholes in absurd laws is my pleasure. For instance, it's crazy that I'll get a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt in a car, but it's perfectly legal for me to sit on the exterior of my vehicle (motorcycle) with no restraints.
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Old 01-08-2019, 02:54 PM   #32 (permalink)
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For instance, it's crazy that I'll get a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt in a car, but it's perfectly legal for me to sit on the exterior of my vehicle (motorcycle) with no restraints.
Or for our children to ride to school in a 45 passenger tin can with no seatbelts.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:34 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Not saying it is right, but you need to come along to help buckle up the schoolbus load of firstgraders to fully understand. By the next stop 1/2 of them are unbuckled. And NO my district WOULDN'T give me an assistant, I cannot complain to the authorities or parents and the €©&£% camera is useless. Heck, I couldn't get college students to use them.

Some districts run them.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:47 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Not saying it is right, but you need to come along to help buckle up the schoolbus load of firstgraders to fully understand. .
I fully understand, but if Big Brother let's them ride without seatbelts, won't he let us (at least the adults) ride without them?
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:56 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Sure on public transit or schoolbusses they are apparently optional. Then again those don't crash much. Roll overs otoh....... come to think of it: railway crossings also.
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:17 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Yeah, busses are very near to the safest form of transportation. Diminishing returns.
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:49 AM   #37 (permalink)
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School buses and seatbelts

Hello all,

School bus safety re: no seatbelts as brought up by Angel And The Wolf and Piotrsko in response to redpoint5

From here: https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/school-bus-safety
"NHTSA decided the best way to provide crash protection to passengers of large school buses is through a concept called “compartmentalization.” This requires that the interior of large buses protect children without them needing to buckle up. Through compartmentalization, children are protected from crashes by strong, closely-spaced seats that have energy-absorbing seat backs."

That's those tall ugly grey vinyl seats. The basic idea is that the small kids are safer on average this way, considering other potential scenarios that require rapid bus evacuation, etc. The risk of a highly regulated driver of a highly regulated/visible vehicle crashing in such a way that the compartmentalization is insufficient to prevent X number of deaths/serious injury was judged to be less than the risk of kids being stuck in a burning bus/bus stuck on a train track/other because they're all belted in and panicking and can't undo them fast enough. At least, that's how it has been explained to me in the past, and the research to date seems to back it up.

The NTSB seems to now be recommending seatbelts (see here: https://abcnews.go.com/beta-story-co...ry?id=55367225) in new buses, though, after a few recent crashes. Trouble is, that seems a knee-jerk "fix the equipment" solution to an actual "fix the system" problem - negligent (cellphone, excessive speed by driver with documented negligence history)/impaired(seizure in driver with known seizure disorder) drivers allowed to keep driving due to poor oversight. (see here: https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-rele...R20180522.aspx) The NHTSA is apparently going to study the issue, but I can't find the relevant link.

I've been rabbit-holing - trolling the NHTSA.gov crash test results database - lately on crash safety in cars, both airbag and non-airbag. A 1984 4-cylinder Jeep CJ-7 surprisingly does better in a 35mph frontal crash than my 2000 Ford Explorer or 1999 Chevy Prizm. Lower HIC's, lower chest G's, similar femur loadings. A Fiero does even better. So there are some viable alternatives to airbags present in older designs. It would be nice if automakers were allowed to sell crash safety systems that work without electronic systems like airbags, though the electronic part seems moot if we're talking EV's.

Seatbelts, though - wear them. Other than in non-motorcycle vehicles like school buses with the rest of the safety systems surrounding the non-belted seats, your 3-point seatbelt, properly worn, is the best piece of safety equipment you have if a crash occurs. Add proper crumple zones, a collapsing steering column, and appropriate dash padding, and one can fare quite well.

This Solo looks an awful lot like a Corbin Sparrow, with a bit more refinement. I need 4 seats with belts in whatever I drive, though I could plausibly get by with 3 (myself and 2 kids) considering we take the wife's car if we're all going somewhere.
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Old 01-09-2019, 02:03 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Are they classified as a motorcycle or as a passenger vehicle down there in cali? Fingers crossed they dont classify them as motorcycles up here...whats the point of a commuter car for the masses if the masses need to go get a motorcycle license to drive one?
They referred to it as an enclosed motorcycle.They never mentioned license requirements.Such a fundamental question,it probably just blew over them.
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Old 01-09-2019, 02:42 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Of course wear your seatbelt. It's just absurd that law requires individuals to do so.

I can legally juggle chainsaws as a complete novice, yet I have no say in the matter of wearing a seatbelt. I can fly an ultralight aircraft with no experience and no seatbelt legally, but cannot choose not to wear a seatbelt in a vehicle.

Still, I see the argument for enforcing safety, and am thankful for the lives it has saved. I'm torn between protecting stupid people from themselves, and maximizing choice (freedom).

Concerning bus safety, it's orders of magnitude safer than passenger vehicles. I feel no need to wear a seatbelt, as the risk is sufficiently low.

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Old 01-09-2019, 04:28 PM   #40 (permalink)
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It always surprises me that buses are safer than trains.

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