[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Xist

I enjoyed watching several Dave Ramsey rants today. Some people said it was "unchristian" to use the word stupid.

It's another word we use to mean foolish. Sure, it's misuse of the word, but we all know what it means.

I tune into the Dave Ramsey Rants, not the Dave Ramsey Calmly and Rationally Discusses Destructive Spending Habits.

*marking this for my armchair psychology theory

Of course, I cannot mention Dave without pointing out errors. He said that no member of the government ever gave you money.

What about the Obama stimulus checks? Someone sent me money...

Well if you're pointing out mistakes...

It was the Bush administration that sent $600 checks to most adults. Obama's administration sent checks to those on SS and some veterans, but the stimulus was $400 per person, and wasn't distributed, but instead not collected from payroll taxes.

One evaluation of these 2 stimulus strategies said that though the Bush stimulus costs more to mail checks and takes longer for people to get the money, it spurred spending more because it felt like free money, whereas having less taken from a paycheck doesn't feel like free money.

All that said, the point that the government has never given money is correct. The government doesn't produce wealth, they confiscate it. They might distribute others confiscated money, or "print" money which devalues the wealth others have saved, but it clearly isn't a "member of government sending [their] money".

He said nurse practitioners make at most $80 - $90,000.

In the right ballpark. Depends on which market and other factors. Specializing makes a lot more. Family medicine that's about right, and that's what most do.

Does it matter that he only gave the starting pay?

He could have been more precise, but the point wasn't to be precise. This isn't a lecture of NP pay grades.

The caller's spouse wanted to quit her job making $60,000 a year to become a nurse practitioner. She did not have a nursing background, so she would lose money for six years before being eligible for jobs that paid $30,000 a year more. How much does an NP program cost? Online programs run somewhere in between costing $400-$800 per credit ultimately averaging about $22,500 for a nurse practitioner degree.

There's online programs? That estimate seems way low to me. My wife's tuition alone was $10k per quarter, $80k for the 2 year program. Not only do you need a 4 year degree, but it should be a science degree involving courses in biology. Then you need lots of volunteer work and experience caring for people to have a pretty low chance of being accepted into a program, which has a $50 application fee each program. If you pass the paper application, you then have to interview in person, which might be a flight across the country for a couple days... with the probability of ultimately being rejected.

However, they already have substantial debt, so of course he told them to pay off their current debt before going back to school.

That's where I disagree with Ramsey. Occupation isn't concerned only with financial outcomes, and if the caller would be more satisfied as an NP, that's what they should do, and the sooner the better.

Finding the right career has a lot to do with finding the optimal challenge for ones skills, ability, and personality. You want something right at the brink of your capabilities, otherwise it isn't interesting. NPs have higher intelligence than average, so probably the first thing for the caller is to find out if intellectual abilities aligns with the job.

I had a conversation with my wife recently about how PA (practically same as NP) suited her well and optimally challenged her. She's smarter than average, but the job of PA is about at the limit of her natural intelligence. She'd probably be in over her head as an MD, and she agrees.

I wonder how many of his callers have terrible luck and how many have terrible decision-making abilities.

When terrible luck is consistent, that's an indication that it's probably terrible decision making abilities.

Then again, fate determines our genetics and environment in which we develop, so in some sense everything is luck.

Originally Posted by Xist

People always say if you win money the government takes half. The highest tax rate is 37%,

The highest federal tax rate is 37%, but that doesn't factor in local taxes and other ways in which we are taxed indirectly.

Week:
1. Pay down my student loans.
2. Make another payment.
3. Pay off my student loans. It would take 10% longer because I pay tithing. Pay an actual repair shop to fix one of my cars.
4. You know what? Let's be silly. There is a house down the street that may have been similar to Mom's before someone converted the garage to a bedroom. They are currently asking $170,000. Let's say that is a fair price if they include closing costs. 3.5% of that is $5,947.
5. Save for 3.5% down.
6. Get approved for a loan and make an offer.
7. I recently read that it can take 30 - 45 days for paperwork to buy a house. 20% is $33,980. That would take 11 weeks. Save my winnings until I can move in and then pay everything until I have 20% and get off mortgage insurance.

Closing on a house can take 30 days or less if everyone stays on top of it. PMI usually has a minimum period, like 2 years. Then there's rules about how to remove PMI that varies from having to purchase an appraisal, to requiring more than 20% equity... each one can be different so read the fine print.

VA loans are generally better and might have advantages in PMI and other terms.

Once Mom's house is fixed up, move back, put up the second house for rent, and look for a third?

I like that strategy. Isn't that the one that messed Dave up in the first place?

The one thing is that house should have an awesome view of fireworks, so I would actually want a clause that we are allowed to watch the show there, and that we will bring pizza and soda of their choosing.

I'm renting rooms to individuals in my house. I stipulate that I have a room and may stay there anytime I want. So far that's been once.

I think it would be hilarious to have my Civic engine and transmission remanufactured and a competent body shop fix the body and repaint.
Could I afford a new car? Absolutely. Would it frustrate people that I spent it on my Civic?

Absolutely!

*marked for armchair psychology.

Mom always says she wants me to buy her a new car if I won Publisher's Clearinghouse, so there you go, I would buy a new car--for Mom.

I probably wouldn't buy a new car for myself no matter how wealthy I became. Likewise, mom wouldn't ever receive a new car from me either. She'd be happy with a sensible used one in good condition.

Anyway, this is an exercise in futility, I doubt I will ever win anything. I need to make my own future happen and take care of things right now.

Most agreeable thing you've said to date.

*Evidence that your priority is not to learn and understand, but to be entertained, especially at the frustration and disappointment of others.