"100% of people who do not save money do not have any!"--Dave Ramsey

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Xist

I enjoyed watching several Dave Ramsey rants today. Some people said it was "unchristian" to use the word stupid.

It's another word we use to mean foolish. Sure, it's misuse of the word, but we all know what it means.

I tune into the Dave Ramsey Rants, not the Dave Ramsey Calmly and Rationally Discusses Destructive Spending Habits.

*marking this for my armchair psychology theory

Of course, I cannot mention Dave without pointing out errors. He said that no member of the government ever gave you money.

What about the Obama stimulus checks? Someone sent me money...

Well if you're pointing out mistakes...

It was the Bush administration that sent $600 checks to most adults. Obama's administration sent checks to those on SS and some veterans, but the stimulus was $400 per person, and wasn't distributed, but instead not collected from payroll taxes.

One evaluation of these 2 stimulus strategies said that though the Bush stimulus costs more to mail checks and takes longer for people to get the money, it spurred spending more because it felt like free money, whereas having less taken from a paycheck doesn't feel like free money.

All that said, the point that the government has never given money is correct. The government doesn't produce wealth, they confiscate it. They might distribute others confiscated money, or "print" money which devalues the wealth others have saved, but it clearly isn't a "member of government sending [their] money".

He said nurse practitioners make at most $80 - $90,000.

In the right ballpark. Depends on which market and other factors. Specializing makes a lot more. Family medicine that's about right, and that's what most do.

Does it matter that he only gave the starting pay?

He could have been more precise, but the point wasn't to be precise. This isn't a lecture of NP pay grades.

The caller's spouse wanted to quit her job making $60,000 a year to become a nurse practitioner. She did not have a nursing background, so she would lose money for six years before being eligible for jobs that paid $30,000 a year more. How much does an NP program cost? Online programs run somewhere in between costing $400-$800 per credit ultimately averaging about $22,500 for a nurse practitioner degree.

There's online programs? That estimate seems way low to me. My wife's tuition alone was $10k per quarter, $80k for the 2 year program. Not only do you need a 4 year degree, but it should be a science degree involving courses in biology. Then you need lots of volunteer work and experience caring for people to have a pretty low chance of being accepted into a program, which has a $50 application fee each program. If you pass the paper application, you then have to interview in person, which might be a flight across the country for a couple days... with the probability of ultimately being rejected.

However, they already have substantial debt, so of course he told them to pay off their current debt before going back to school.

That's where I disagree with Ramsey. Occupation isn't concerned only with financial outcomes, and if the caller would be more satisfied as an NP, that's what they should do, and the sooner the better.

Finding the right career has a lot to do with finding the optimal challenge for ones skills, ability, and personality. You want something right at the brink of your capabilities, otherwise it isn't interesting. NPs have higher intelligence than average, so probably the first thing for the caller is to find out if intellectual abilities aligns with the job.

I had a conversation with my wife recently about how PA (practically same as NP) suited her well and optimally challenged her. She's smarter than average, but the job of PA is about at the limit of her natural intelligence. She'd probably be in over her head as an MD, and she agrees.

I wonder how many of his callers have terrible luck and how many have terrible decision-making abilities.

When terrible luck is consistent, that's an indication that it's probably terrible decision making abilities.

Then again, fate determines our genetics and environment in which we develop, so in some sense everything is luck.

Originally Posted by Xist

People always say if you win money the government takes half. The highest tax rate is 37%,

The highest federal tax rate is 37%, but that doesn't factor in local taxes and other ways in which we are taxed indirectly.

Week:
1. Pay down my student loans.
2. Make another payment.
3. Pay off my student loans. It would take 10% longer because I pay tithing. Pay an actual repair shop to fix one of my cars.
4. You know what? Let's be silly. There is a house down the street that may have been similar to Mom's before someone converted the garage to a bedroom. They are currently asking $170,000. Let's say that is a fair price if they include closing costs. 3.5% of that is $5,947.
5. Save for 3.5% down.
6. Get approved for a loan and make an offer.
7. I recently read that it can take 30 - 45 days for paperwork to buy a house. 20% is $33,980. That would take 11 weeks. Save my winnings until I can move in and then pay everything until I have 20% and get off mortgage insurance.

Closing on a house can take 30 days or less if everyone stays on top of it. PMI usually has a minimum period, like 2 years. Then there's rules about how to remove PMI that varies from having to purchase an appraisal, to requiring more than 20% equity... each one can be different so read the fine print.

VA loans are generally better and might have advantages in PMI and other terms.

Once Mom's house is fixed up, move back, put up the second house for rent, and look for a third?

I like that strategy. Isn't that the one that messed Dave up in the first place?

The one thing is that house should have an awesome view of fireworks, so I would actually want a clause that we are allowed to watch the show there, and that we will bring pizza and soda of their choosing.

I'm renting rooms to individuals in my house. I stipulate that I have a room and may stay there anytime I want. So far that's been once.

I think it would be hilarious to have my Civic engine and transmission remanufactured and a competent body shop fix the body and repaint.
Could I afford a new car? Absolutely. Would it frustrate people that I spent it on my Civic?

Absolutely!

*marked for armchair psychology.

Mom always says she wants me to buy her a new car if I won Publisher's Clearinghouse, so there you go, I would buy a new car--for Mom.

I probably wouldn't buy a new car for myself no matter how wealthy I became. Likewise, mom wouldn't ever receive a new car from me either. She'd be happy with a sensible used one in good condition.

Anyway, this is an exercise in futility, I doubt I will ever win anything. I need to make my own future happen and take care of things right now.

Most agreeable thing you've said to date.

*Evidence that your priority is not to learn and understand, but to be entertained, especially at the frustration and disappointment of others.

[Xist]

I appreciate your detailed response, but it is 0140, and I promised myself that I would get to bed at a reasonable time last night. I still have a PM to which I want to try to finish responding.

Eh. We have long felt that I had Asperger's. One psychologist suggested it, but said the label would not help me. Years ago I took out two women who asked if I had been diagnosed with Asperger's.

Is it expected or unexpected to ask people if they had been diagnosed with things while on a date with them?

When I was a substitute I said "Stupid" to a kindergarten class and they gasped.

It is not a bad word, but I decided I did not need to say it.

I watch Dave Ramsey clips whether or not they specify being a rant, just if the topic interests me.

I wonder why I attributed Bush's actions to President Obama, but then again, why do I say Bush and President Obama (one was my commander-in-chief. That should be capitalized, shouldn't it?)

I am sure that starting NP pay varies wildly by state, just like every other field.

My sister earned her BSN through NAU and her NP through Grand Canyon University. Both programs were on-line and required her traveling to Flagstaff to take tests.

My understanding is that NPs have far more hands-on experience than PAs.

As my math showed, there was a long ROI on switching. I am not going to calculate different scenarios, although I wonder if she could have tried to advance in her current field.

People should enjoy their jobs. Otherwise they would be like the Walmart cashier that was clearly unhappy to be there.

I should have said "What a coincidence! I don't want to be here, either!"

Okay, I found the video, which took a surprisingly long time to find, especially considering that I basically wrote out the title.

The caller specified his wife would need to quit her job to go back to school. The specific point is that they already owe $150,000 in debt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajXUaZ5bvls

I have looked into PMI (once again I should be working on projects instead of researching things I may or may not pursue months or years from now). I did not see anything about a minimum period, but I am sure a great deal of information was forgone. It is supposed to automatically dropped off once you only owe 78% of what it is worth, so you are supposed to be able to get out faster if your property gains value, although that would indicate it could take indefinitely to get out if your property loses enough value.

My sister bought her first house in 2006 and she bragged that it gained enough value for her to get out of mortgage insurance within months, so I guess there is not a minimum duration in Arizona.

According to Graham Stephan (or Meet Kevin), Dave was buying houses with ninety-day loans, and he kept renewing the loans until someone bought the bank and refused to renew. Dave seemed to confirm that in one of the videos that I watched on Wednesday.

By the way, someone asked Dave how to successfully flip and Dave told him to make sure he could turn a profit besides his hourly pay, otherwise just remodel for someone else.

You reserve one room in your house?

Mom and my sister have never liked my Civic. There are some dents and the paint has seen better days, but I honestly believe they dislike my car just because I like it, but nobody needs me to list my evidence for that theory.

I like my Civic and want to keep her as long as I can. I want to fix everything possible.

Mom goes back and forth between saying she wants a new car and she wants a 2017 Camry. She prefers that one's Predator mouth, but I cannot get the images to load right now, although both look absurdly big.

I do not know that any of Ramsey's rants are directed at anyone. The video I linked in #1 was him talking to the audience, not calling a specific person.

I do not have any idea how that would cause frustration and disappointment of others.

As I wrote before, people enjoy reaction videos. Here is one of Graham Stephen's father driving Graham's Tesla for the first time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0lvdLO8lYo

Here is one of a baby: https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1565861859

Then, of course, there are the jump-scare reaction videos, which are considered cheap.

Okay. It is 0240 and I am concluding this masterpiece of words and stuff.

[Xist]

My sister has been renting since they moved back from Oregon last year. They were doing everything they could to save up for a down payment, but it seems like they burned out quickly.

They put in an offer on a nice house the other day and were accepted. Their move-in date is supposed to be seven weeks from then, so that is how long it [may] take. It is a bigger house and even with mortgage insurance, it will be slightly cheaper. They will be responsible for their own repairs, but it does not seem like their landlord believes in repairing his own house.

Hey! You guys knew that I drove Army trucks for eight years, right?! Before that I drove a school bus for five and a half years.

She already said she is driving the moving truck herself, despite once hitting a fence, and getting a moving truck stuck another time.

That is about as many mistakes as I made in 13.5 years.

[redpoint5]

I saw a broken down HMMWV on I-84 the other day and thought of Xist. What are the common problems?

[Xist]

I did answer this elsewhere, right? I drove HMMWVs far less than other vehicles, but ChrisFix discussed this when he bought his monster.

In the last Dave Ramsey video that I watched he yelled at a woman that took a vacation while just starting to pay off her huge debts. That was fun and all, but I really enjoyed this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OuXy_h8Qb4

A divorced mom called in because she had a credit card with what Dave calls "American Distress" and they were harassing her. They worked out a plan and he assured her that nothing they said about her was true, she was a good mom that got behind in her finances taking care of her kids, but in five years this would be a story she shares with other single moms in similar situations.

[All Darc]

I once heard about videos related to minimalist life style. I imagine, before watch the videos, that it was about live in nature if possible, similar to hippie, with the least as possible, get donated clothes or used, just food and a room to live, since I had watched some tv reportage about people living like that.

But I found it was nothing like that, but it was about adminstration and priorities. For example, they showed how people can get better if concentrate their money in what they needed more and for what they needed less they would take the most simple things. For example, they do not get expensive mobile phone, neither expensive cars or pricy clothes/glasses/watches, unles they work needed something advanced. The money they saved, cuttin the unnecessary things, was invested in professional enhancement and laisure, trips, enjoy life instead of lose time trying to show people they was happy or wealth.

But people don't respect such people, but think they are fools or cheapskate.
I saw many things like the following : Begger getting more money if askig money for beer than if asking money for a sick daughter or for food. On internet a guy goet a lot of money after request help to buy his beer supply. He got so much that he decided to donated the extra portion. The beer company decided to donate a wholle lotta after found he donated to a hospital, so they gave hin some money and beer supply free, and a lot to the hspital, or something like that.
But after a reporter founbd of twittes of hin, with political incorretc posts, from his teens, he lost the gift hw would get. And the TV reprter that brought his pass and f... hin, was found to have even more political incorrect posts in his twitter, with even hate posts.

A woman asked money to help her overcome a terrible date thata was supposed traumatic for her, and where she lost a lot of money. She got donatins.

What will be next? Someone ask hep to rent a Mercedes to get a pretty girl that believes he is rich???

I think the donators project thenselves in cases like that...

[redpoint5]

Sites like Mr. Money Mustache are dedicated to the concepts you mentioned concerning living frugally and well below your means. The thing is, people are either savers or spenders. I've always naturally lived below my means because I'd rather have opportunity (money in the bank) than the latest widget or to be seen as trendy.

As I say, spend money on things you use often and enjoy the most. I generally buy 1 or 2 generations old technology which is vastly cheaper. Much of the depreciation has occurred by then.

I don't get ban culture. Who cares what people said when they were kids. Further, how in the world is generalized bigotry worse than actually being hateful towards individuals? If someone said that 1/4 Japanese are the worst people on Earth, why would I care? Now if someone struck me in the face because they hate me personally, that matters. Words matter, but actions matter more. Donating over a million is a true testament of character and goodwill.

[Shaneajanderson]

I live fairly minimalistic in the way stated above. I drive old cars that I buy cash, I generally buy clothes at the thrift store, or on occasion at farm supply stores when they are on sale (I'll gladly pay $20 for a wrangler or carharrt shirt on sale because I know they will last, but there's no way I'd pay the same for "fashion" brands.) I also reused a lot of things that others would throw away. It is through this type of lifestyle that I was able to support a family of 4 (then 5, now 6) on a single income. I've come a long ways in terms of income in the last 4 years, and in fact even in the last year, but we are now ~2 weeks from closing on a fairly nice house that by all rights someone with my income 'can't' afford.

I also bought a couple mobile homes a few years back (one of which I currently live in), both I got for around $8000. I put a little money into both and expect to sell them for at least 20k.

[Fat Charlie]

I actually funnel as much of my spending through credit cards as I can. Why spend actual cash at the pump or the grocery store when for the same price I can get rewards points too? It bakes a discount into (almost) everything I already have to spend money on.

[jjackstone]

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

I actually funnel as much of my spending through credit cards as I can. Why spend actual cash at the pump or the grocery store when for the same price I can get rewards points too? It bakes a discount into (almost) everything I already have to spend money on.

Peace of mind. Most of my friends and relatives have had either their credit card or debit card hacked at one time or another. In my world it is worth the extra 2 or 3% to pay cash and never have to worry about it. Even if the credit card company gives you back whatever money you got scammed for you still have to waste your time to get the ball rolling, cancel the old card, get a new card and worry about what other information about your personal life has been hacked. I gave up credit cards years ago just for those reasons. As of this time I've never been hacked.
JJ