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Originally Posted by JSH
Meanwhile they continue to develop EV technology with hybrids.
They also make a very logical argument that if reduced CO2 is the goal we will see much great reduction putting almost everyone in a hybrid with much reduced CO2 emissions than a small fraction of the population EVs and everyone else just continuing to buy gas cars.
It seems the fires are a result of sloppy manufacturing not the underlying battery tech.
EV enthusiasts can't understand why manufacturers aren't making a bunch of EVs. They don't care that profit margins are lower on an EV than a gas car.
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Engineering a hybrid is way more difficult than engineering a pure EV, so Toyota's competency to make EVs will already be established when the time is right.
Regarding CO2 reduction, I'm constantly saying there is more bang for the buck making hybrids and PHEVs given current technology and manufacturing capacity. Nobody wants to hear it. They argue everyone is better off in a Bolt than a Prius Prime, for example. I posted this on the Bolt forum in response to "If I want lower EV efficiency and inconvenience of a PHEV lugging around an engine and gasoline, I guess I can carry 4 spare tires and some bricks in my Bolt..."
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Efficiency
Frontal area- Prius Prime 23.9^2 - Bolt is 25.8^2
Coefficent of drag- Prius Prime .25 - Bolt 0.31
MPGe- Prius Prime 133 - Bolt 118
winner is Prius Prime in every category
In 2019 the Prius Prime sold 23,500 and the Bolt sold 16,500. Based on sales figures, it's possible more cumulative EV miles are driven by Prime owners than Bolt owners, and all that from a battery 1/4 the size of the Bolts.
The purity of the green religion means they are constantly letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. I've been saying here for years now that hybrid and plug-ins are going to be important transitional technologies. This all or nothing mindset is getting in the way of real progress.
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Oh, and the Prius Prime is 200 lbs lighter weight.
Regarding the Bolt fires, many people used to be critical of Tesla's use of cylindrical cells because it wastes more materials in packaging and wastes volume due to void space between cells. They argued prismatic and pouch were more efficient and pointed to the fact that most EV manufacturers have adopted these formats. In hindsight, it may have been a wise engineering decision in that it reduces the chance of a single cell defect causing a fire.
I've argued that perhaps a design that requires cells to be defect free might not be safe enough. A single cell having an internal short shouldn't cause ones house to burn down. Perhaps I'm wrong though and cells can be made reliably enough that the risk is low, or it would simply be too many compromises to make an inherently safe battery.
EV enthusiasts are myopic in every way. They don't consider that auto manufacturers need to make a profit, and EVs aren't profitable. They don't consider that many people don't have convenient access to charging. They don't consider that most vehicle buyers don't want to research their stopping points prior to going on a trip. Most people don't want to spend 40 minutes "filling" their vehicle. Most aren't satisfied with the frequency of broken chargers compared with the reliability of gas station pumps.