[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by JSH

Would you actually buy a new $2000 OEM block for your $500 Prius? I know I wouldn't. I would either scrap the car if it cracked the block or buy a complete junkyard engine as I have done with other old cars.

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Agreed. Any vehicle 15+ years old needing major work is worth scrap. Perhaps the difference being if someone has the time and inclination, they can rebuild an engine for not much cost. There's no getting around the high cost of battery replacement since it's the "part" that is so expensive.

The junkyard might be the best option IMO.

The question is: How much do you get for that scrapped car, in addition to the $2,000 + misc parts and time for the engine (or $700 used, $1,000 if that needs to be shipped) and what car can you buy for that (even without COVID prices)?

Junk car: $250-$500 at scrap yard

Savings from not buying engine: $1,770 (OEM new long block) + $254 (complete engine gasket kit) + Misc ($300-$500) + time (depends on how you value it). (Prices quoted from nearest dealer to me, only 200 miles away so fuel will also be a cost).

Or $700 (used engine) + $254 (complete engine gasket kit) + Misc ($300-$500) + time.

So you have a 15 year old car. You can scrap it and get a couple hundred for it, maybe more. If you part it out you might get even more, of course that costs time and possibly shipping. the other $1,000 to $2,500 you save from not replairing the engine can also be put towards a newer car. At best you're $3,000 ahead (well, more if you include your time). What car can you buy for $3,000 that's better than a 15 year old car with a new engine?

Originally Posted by JSH

BEVs are no different than ICE when it comes to major repairs when they are 15 - 20 years old. VERY few people are going to spend more fixing the car than it is worth.

Originally Posted by JSH

You can crack open the battery and look for the cause of failure. Most likely a failed connection or a handful of weak cells. This is no different than how fixing / rebuilding an engine is way less expensive than buying a new crate engine.

Rebuilding a battery requires different tools and knowledge than a mechanical engine but it is well within the capabilities of someone that wants to learn how to do it.

Yes and no. From what I can tell, you rarely get a batch of weak cells. When EV or hybrid cells start to go bad, pretty much all of them are going to be in need of replacing. Generally if one cell is at 70%, then the rest are almost there themselves. And once one goes bad, replacing it becomes what Prius owner's call the game of "whack-a-mole." Either you figure on testing and replacing random cells for the rest of the vehicle's life, or you go get a new battery.

This is why rebuilt hybrid batteries give terrible results. A year, two, or at best three years from the time you put in a rebuilt it fails because all the cells were from weak packs that they just pulled all the dead cells from and make one good one. Even with strenuous testing and cell matching you still end up with an old battery that really should be replaced.

This is also why you don't see EV battery rebuilding, because if you harvest cells from dozens of weak packs all you end up with are hundreds or thousands of weak cells. Taking all the best cells from each pack and making just one battery with them will still give you a weak battery.

Originally Posted by Drifter

Market value and utility value rarely correlate on unpopularly aged vehicles (i.e. before they become "classic"). Unless you've got major rust/body issues or can only pay dealership labor rates for service, maintaining a quality older economy car almost always results in the lowest operating costs/total cost of ownership.

take a completely worn out 2005 prius. Let's say it was used as a taxi and has 500,000 miles and all the wear items are worn. You can install a rebuilt engine, new battery pack, low mileage inverter, all new suspension bushings/shocks, all new brakes, new tires, and swap in a complete junkyard interior from a nice higher trim - all for around $10,000. Add new/rebuilt air conditioning & a modern carplay/adroid auto radio and you're probably at $12,000 (paying an independent mechanic to do the work).

There is no way you could resell your almost entirely rebuilt 500,000 mile prius for $12,000. But you also could not buy a car for $12,000 that will be as cheap to operate over the next 5-10 years - especially when you factor in the higher insurance, registration, and depreciation on a newer car. So that rebuilt 500,000 mile prius has more than $12,000 worth of utility.

This is a good point.

Originally Posted by JSH

True but you would still be driving a 17 year old Prius. Not to mention that that $12K of work would need to be paid out of pocket while a different car can be financed at low rates.

But would the old Prius need all $12,000 of work done to it at once? The pros and cons are that as parts fail and need replacing, that can happen over a period of time, much like payments. And much like payments, if you don't pay you may have to stop driving. But with the old car, if you don't have the money for the repair you don't have to pay. You just stop driving for a while. With the new car if you don't pay you lose everything you've invested in it.

Originally Posted by JSH

Also if that 2005 was totaled in a wreck you wouldn't get anywhere near $12K from the insurance company to replace it.

This is the big one here! By doing what "normal" people do you keep yourself in a safer spot financially. Sure, you have to go buy a newer car every time yours gets to the point it needs a new engine or something. Financially it's more expensive in the long run, but at least you don't pop a new $2,000 California compliant catalytic converter only to have it robbed and the insurance company come back and say "your car was only worth $500, so here's a check, thanks for the car."

Originally Posted by JSH

Most people would spend that money on something newer. Maybe something like these:

2014 Toyota Camry LE $12,489
2014 Toyota Prius One $11,990

Most people, yes. But if we go with the $2,000 engine block, $12,000 costs way more. It also means you're forced to make payments for the next several years. $2,000 spread out over the year is the same amount I pay for the Avalon per year, and it was similar in cost to those cars. The Prius is still driveable. I can drive it and save up the money for the replacment, or decide then if it's still worth it. But it will need at least a battery some time in the future, which is another $2,000.

There are times when I feel like I'll never again get a car loan like I did with the Avalon and be stuck with a car payment. 5 Years feel like an eternity to pay off. It's not a lot of money per month, but it still bugs me.