Replacement EV battery dilemas... Spark and Leaf

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by JSH

GM did not discontinue making Spark EV batteries. They simply ran out of stock and that got passed around as them being discontinued.

That said - nobody is going to pay out of pocket to replace a Spark battery. When I had 2016 Spark EV an OEM replacement battery was $22K.

GM Parts Direct has a OEM refurbished Spark EV battery for $10,070.

Let's hope they last.

I fret over replacing the block in my Prius for $2,000. If it were $22,000 I definitly wouldn't.

[Drifter]

The nice thing about the leaf is Nissan sold so many of them and they kept the same case/dimensions. There is a shop in Portland, OR that will retrofit larger new batteries from wrecks into older leafs. They also were working on brand new cells...

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by Drifter

The nice thing about the leaf is Nissan sold so many of them and they kept the same case/dimensions. There is a shop in Portland, OR that will retrofit larger new batteries from wrecks into older leafs. They also were working on brand new cells...

I am skeptical about aftermarket batteries being both good and cheap. For the past 10 years we've been promised that any day shops are going to start making aftermarket batteries with tons of range for a reasonable price but so far that hasn't happened. If hybrids are anything to go by, I rarely see an aftermarket battery that doesn't have a terrible rating of lasting two or three years tops unless it costs more than the OEM one.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

Let's hope they last.

I fret over replacing the block in my Prius for $2,000. If it were $22,000 I definitly wouldn't.

Would you actually buy a new $2000 OEM block for your $500 Prius? I know I wouldn't. I would either scrap the car if it cracked the block or buy a complete junkyard engine as I have done with other old cars.

BEVs are no different than ICE when it comes to major repairs when they are 15 - 20 years old. VERY few people are going to spend more fixing the car than it is worth.

[redpoint5]

Agreed. Any vehicle 15+ years old needing major work is worth scrap. Perhaps the difference being if someone has the time and inclination, they can rebuild an engine for not much cost. There's no getting around the high cost of battery replacement since it's the "part" that is so expensive.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Agreed. Any vehicle 15+ years old needing major work is worth scrap. Perhaps the difference being if someone has the time and inclination, they can rebuild an engine for not much cost. There's no getting around the high cost of battery replacement since it's the "part" that is so expensive.

You can crack open the battery and look for the cause of failure. Most likely a failed connection or a handful of weak cells. This is no different than how fixing / rebuilding an engine is way less expensive than buying a new crate engine.

Rebuilding a battery requires different tools and knowledge than a mechanical engine but it is well within the capabilities of someone that wants to learn how to do it.

[Drifter]

Market value and utility value rarely correlate on unpopularly aged vehicles (i.e. before they become "classic"). Unless you've got major rust/body issues or can only pay dealership labor rates for service, maintaining a quality older economy car almost always results in the lowest operating costs/total cost of ownership.

take a completely worn out 2005 prius. Let's say it was used as a taxi and has 500,000 miles and all the wear items are worn. You can install a rebuilt engine, new battery pack, low mileage inverter, all new suspension bushings/shocks, all new brakes, new tires, and swap in a complete junkyard interior from a nice higher trim - all for around $10,000. Add new/rebuilt air conditioning & a modern carplay/adroid auto radio and you're probably at $12,000 (paying an independent mechanic to do the work).

There is no way you could resell your almost entirely rebuilt 500,000 mile prius for $12,000. But you also could not buy a car for $12,000 that will be as cheap to operate over the next 5-10 years - especially when you factor in the higher insurance, registration, and depreciation on a newer car. So that rebuilt 500,000 mile prius has more than $12,000 worth of utility.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Drifter

Market value and utility value rarely correlate on unpopularly aged vehicles (i.e. before they become "classic"). Unless you've got major rust/body issues or can only pay dealership labor rates for service, maintaining a quality older economy car almost always results in the lowest operating costs/total cost of ownership.

take a completely worn out 2005 prius. Let's say it was used as a taxi and has 500,000 miles and all the wear items are worn. You can install a rebuilt engine, new battery pack, low mileage inverter, all new suspension bushings/shocks, all new brakes, new tires, and swap in a complete junkyard interior from a nice higher trim - all for around $10,000. Add new/rebuilt air conditioning & a modern carplay/adroid auto radio and you're probably at $12,000 (paying an independent mechanic to do the work).

There is no way you could resell your almost entirely rebuilt 500,000 mile prius for $12,000. But you also could not buy a car for $12,000 that will be as cheap to operate over the next 5-10 years - especially when you factor in the higher insurance, registration, and depreciation on a newer car. So that rebuilt 500,000 mile prius has more than $12,000 worth of utility.

True but you would still be driving a 17 year old Prius. Not to mention that that $12K of work would need to be paid out of pocket while a different car can be financed at low rates. Also if that 2005 was totaled in a wreck you wouldn't get anywhere near $12K from the insurance company to replace it.

Most people would spend that money on something newer. Maybe something like these:

[Drifter]

Most people would rather have those newer half-worn cars, but I'd rather have the refreshed older car. They're paying $12,000 hoping to get another ~150,000 miles with normal maintenance vs me paying $12,000 hoping to get another 350,000-400,000 miles with normal maintenance.

Truthfully I wouldn't put $12,000 into an old car all at once unless it was a restoration or something. For a beater/driver, I just treat it like the Ship of Theseus and replace things along the way even if some rare repairs cost more than the market value of the car (e.g. rebuilt engine).

[Tahoe_Hybrid]

Originally Posted by Drifter

Market value and utility value rarely correlate on unpopularly aged vehicles (i.e. before they become "classic"). Unless you've got major rust/body issues or can only pay dealership labor rates for service, maintaining a quality older economy car almost always results in the lowest operating costs/total cost of ownership.

take a completely worn out 2005 prius. Let's say it was used as a taxi and has 500,000 miles and all the wear items are worn. You can install a rebuilt engine, new battery pack, low mileage inverter, all new suspension bushings/shocks, all new brakes, new tires, and swap in a complete junkyard interior from a nice higher trim - all for around $10,000. Add new/rebuilt air conditioning & a modern carplay/adroid auto radio and you're probably at $12,000 (paying an independent mechanic to do the work).

There is no way you could resell your almost entirely rebuilt 500,000 mile prius for $12,000. But you also could not buy a car for $12,000 that will be as cheap to operate over the next 5-10 years - especially when you factor in the higher insurance, registration, and depreciation on a newer car. So that rebuilt 500,000 mile prius has more than $12,000 worth of utility.

Hybrid Delete by disabling the auto stop