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JSH · 08-18-2022, 01:12 PM

Ecky's post is key to this discussion. What got this topic going was my assertion that economically there is no reason that every vehicle today shouldn't be at least a hybrid. The extra initial cost is paid back many times over in fuel savings over in the life of the car.

There have been concerns about the life of a hybrid battery - and yes - they will die and most won't be replaced and the car will be scrapped. That is fine.

There has been discussion about how much easier it is to keep a conventional gas car on the road but the examples have been 15 to 35 years old. That is not the reality of today. Today's non-hybrid cars are much more complex than cars made decades ago. We live in an era where computers are required to change the lead acid starting battery and brake pads. Where HVAC controls and other basic functions are controlled by touchscreens. Where the typical car has miles of electrical wires and 1,000 or more chips. These aren't cars that are going to be fixed by the typical DIY mechanic 15 to 20 years from now.

There is also the reality that if we are talking about the working poor that can't afford anything more than a 15 year old car - generally these aren't homeowners. They are renting and most rentals have pretty strict rules against DIY repairs on the property. So even if someone knew how to fix the car, and had the computers to do it, they don't have the physical space to do the repairs. The vast majority of auto maintenance and repairs are done by profession mechanics.

Some highlights from the EPA vehicle trend report (2020 model year)

Turbocharged engines are rapidly increasing. The Europeans lead the way. 99% of BMW and Mercedes are turbocharged and 92% of VWs are. US automakers are gaining fast - 79% of Ford and 43% of GM. The Japanese and Koreas lag but they are adding turbos too. (Toyota is last at 3% but their newest engine is a twin-turbo hybrid)
98% of cars sold have an automatic transmission. 52% have 7 or more gears.
57% have direct injection and the high pressure fuel systems that come with that
53% have stop / start.

08-18-2022, 01:12 PM	#27 (permalink)
JSH AKA - Jason Join Date: May 2009 Location: PDX Posts: 3,601 Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan 90 day: 17.3 mpg (US) Thanks: 325 Thanked 2,147 Times in 1,454 Posts	Ecky's post is key to this discussion. What got this topic going was my assertion that economically there is no reason that every vehicle today shouldn't be at least a hybrid. The extra initial cost is paid back many times over in fuel savings over in the life of the car. There have been concerns about the life of a hybrid battery - and yes - they will die and most won't be replaced and the car will be scrapped. That is fine. There has been discussion about how much easier it is to keep a conventional gas car on the road but the examples have been 15 to 35 years old. That is not the reality of today. Today's non-hybrid cars are much more complex than cars made decades ago. We live in an era where computers are required to change the lead acid starting battery and brake pads. Where HVAC controls and other basic functions are controlled by touchscreens. Where the typical car has miles of electrical wires and 1,000 or more chips. These aren't cars that are going to be fixed by the typical DIY mechanic 15 to 20 years from now. There is also the reality that if we are talking about the working poor that can't afford anything more than a 15 year old car - generally these aren't homeowners. They are renting and most rentals have pretty strict rules against DIY repairs on the property. So even if someone knew how to fix the car, and had the computers to do it, they don't have the physical space to do the repairs. The vast majority of auto maintenance and repairs are done by profession mechanics. Some highlights from the EPA vehicle trend report (2020 model year) Turbocharged engines are rapidly increasing. The Europeans lead the way. 99% of BMW and Mercedes are turbocharged and 92% of VWs are. US automakers are gaining fast - 79% of Ford and 43% of GM. The Japanese and Koreas lag but they are adding turbos too. (Toyota is last at 3% but their newest engine is a twin-turbo hybrid) 98% of cars sold have an automatic transmission. 52% have 7 or more gears. 57% have direct injection and the high pressure fuel systems that come with that 53% have stop / start.