View Single Post
Old 12-16-2008, 09:20 AM   #42 (permalink)
Funny
Master EcoModder
 
Funny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 409

Eco-Fit - '13 Honda Fit Base
90 day: 37.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 30
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DifferentPointofView View Post
Then how is that guy producing E100 and burning it for energy?
Just as a clarification to everyone, there is no such thing as 100% ethanol, it is unattainable in practical application because it is azeotropic. Reagent grade ethanol, the highest percent purity money can buy, is 99.8% percent. This is the highest one can obtain without putting ridiculous amounts of energy into it to drive off the water. Typical ethanol that one creates in a still, commonly known as "moonshine", is 95.6% ethanol, 4.4% water.

Wikipedia quote: "A well known example of a positive azeotrope is 95.6% ethanol and 4.4% water (by weight). Ethanol boils at 78.4°C, water boils at 100°C, but the azeotrope boils at 78.1°C, which is lower than either of its constituents. Indeed 78.1°C is the minimum temperature at which any ethanol/water solution can boil. It is true that a positive azeotrope boils at a lower temperature than any other ratio of its constituents. Positive azeotropes are also called minimum boiling mixtures."

Once ethanol is exposed to air, it immediately begins to remove moisture from it, thus becoming less and less concentrated the more exposure it receives. This is why cars have stumbling problems with E10 and E85, there is water in the gas tank. In most small engine power equipment, you will find a statement in the owners manual that tells you to not use gasoline with ethanol in it if possible because it creates moisture in the carburetor and problems such as condensation, hesitation, and frustration (This F'ing Thing Won't Start!!! *Beats mower repeatedly with a hammer*.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DifferentPointofView View Post
One of the classes in my school (BSAA) is making E100, and I think they might Denature it for the use as a fuel (and so you can't really drink it...) But I'm pretty sure E85 isn't Pure ethanol, as its 15 percent gasoline, and E100 is used as fuel today, just not good in engines not built for it.
Again, fuel grade Ethanol is not 100%. Close, but no cigar.

Methanol, on the other hand, which is used in Heet, and other forms of "dry gas", is a great way to remove water from your gas tank. It doesn't form an azeotrope with water, and can be 100% pure. It is also completely soluble in both ethanol and water and, as such "pulls" the water out of the gas tank, through the fuel pump, and sends it through the combustion chamber.

I would be much more inclined to buy 5% Methylated Gasoline than E10. Even though the methanol reduces the overall BTU per gallon, you would effectively never have water in your gas tank. I hope this clarifies everything for everyone.

EDIT:
In response to the above post about wood being used to create ethanol...

"Methanol is often called wood alcohol because it was once produced chiefly as a byproduct of the destructive distillation of wood. It is now produced synthetically by a multi-step process: natural gas or coal gas and steam are reformed in a furnace to produce hydrogen and carbon monoxide; then, hydrogen and carbon monoxide gases react under pressure in the presence of a catalyst. Methanol is also produced from the gasification of a range of renewable biomass materials, such as wood and black liquor from pulp and paper mills."
__________________
American by right
Ecomodder by choice
Hypermiler by necessity


Last edited by Funny; 12-16-2008 at 09:26 AM..
  Reply With Quote