2016 Toyota Prius (photos, specifications, Cd 0.24)

[oldtamiyaphile]

We pay $5.80/ gallon without a carbon tax.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile

We pay $5.80/ gallon without a carbon tax.

And gas is cheaper to use? How much is your electricity at the bottom of your bill divided by the kWh used? I pay $0.14 / kWh total including service and line fees and could probably reduce the charging cost with a day/ night meter.

[oldtamiyaphile]

Electricity is 24c/kWh.

I used the new Prius IV specs of 3.2l/100km combined (73.5MPG US) and vs the default numbers for the Leaf.

The Prius IV is set to be so efficient, that it will shame the 1st gen EV's.

I re-ran the numbers using US figures of $2.2/gallon and 14c/kWh and the Prius comes out around $200 a year cheaper to fuel.

The Prius 4 seems to have well and truly hit the point of diminishing returns. In the US it will cost 3c/km to fuel. Even if they manage to halve that in later models, it won't save much fuel or money.

[oldtamiyaphile]

Originally Posted by sendler

the Carbon emissions are listed as 40% less for the Leaf in NY. And the grid is getting cleaner all the time.

Our grid is mostly coal. Cars are generally charged overnight, so EV's charged in 'clean' states that rely on solar might not be as clean as the basic figures suggest. If you don't select a state the calculator will default to a 100% coal based calculation - this would be accurate for most of Australia and other solar boosted coal generators.

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile

I've found this neat calculator:

Electric Car Calculator

Based on 3.2l/100km, the Prius is actually cheaper to fuel and produces 25% less Co2 than a Leaf

I've grown used to the styling now and look forward to getting one in 2-3 years time as it's probably the only car I refuse to buy new.

my electricity in california is 15.5/kwh according to this website. Gasoline here in about 3.00/gallon. And 3.2l/100km seems to efficient or the 2016 prius. US estimaes seem to be 54mpg city and 50 highway.

When I run those assumptions through the calculator: the Leaf is a couple hundred a year cheaper and less than half as polluting.

Now if I switch the state to Kentucky... the leaf is several times dirtier than the Prius, because in Kentucky it will run on coal.

EDIT: THE FORD FOCUS BEV SCORES BETTER THAN THE LEAF IN THIS CALCULATOR.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile

Electricity is 24c/kWh.

I used the new Prius IV specs of 3.2l/100km combined (73.5MPG US) and vs the default numbers for the Leaf.

Prius Four has a 51/48 mpgUS rating. There is no magic. Until you reduce frontal area and drag with an exotic like the Volkswagon XL1.
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2015 Toyota Prius | The hybrid that started it all

[sendler]

Fuel economy for the 2016 Prius from fueleconomy.gov is 54/ 50 mpgUS. 22.1 km/ L. 4.52L/ 100km.
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https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/37163.shtml
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You cannot go by the Japan test numbers. They are way too high an all cars. Especially for hybrids and plug in hybrids where they do not replenish the battery.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by sendler

At some point fossil fuel must become a world heritage commodity that is not "owned" by any one person or country. And must be carbon taxed to make those that waste it pay for the transition to renewables.

Having a carbon tax (or any tax to discourage use) on fossil fuels is only effective if nearly all countries participate. Taxing just the US, for example, would only hurt the US economy and drive fuel prices lower for other countries, which would in turn increase consumption.

It's a chicken and egg problem where no country wants to be the first to harm their economy while giving others an economic advantage.

Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile

The Prius 4 seems to have well and truly hit the point of diminishing returns. In the US it will cost 3c/km to fuel. Even if they manage to halve that in later models, it won't save much fuel or money.

I was first aware of diminishing returns back when CD-ROM burners were doubling speed every year. Going from a 2x speed to 4x speed (double) saved 20 minutes to write a disc. Going from 4x to 8x (double again) saved 10 minutes. At some point it takes great effort to increase performance, while the benefit gained is very minimal.

The Prius appears to be at that point of diminishing returns where saving another 5 MPG isn't going to be very meaningful, especially if the cost to do so is great.

[oldtamiyaphile]

Originally Posted by sendler

Prius Four has a 51/48 mpgUS rating. There is no magic.

No, that's the Prius 3. Toyota are claiming 18% improvement on that.

The current Prius is rated 3.9 combined NEDC, an 18% improvement works out to 3.2. Most hypermiling owners will have no trouble matching the NEDC figures of their Gen3 and the Gen 4 should be no different.

On the EPA test it should score 64/59. Those figures should be easily beatable. My Gen 2 runs 10% over EPA even though it's used only on short trips which really kills Prius mileage.

I imagine in Japan it's rated 2.5-2.8.

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile

...On the EPA test it should score 64/59....

The EPA ratings for the 2016 Prius are 54 (city) 50 (hwy).