Analyzing, refurbishing/repairing a dead hybrid battery pack (2000 Honda Insight)

[jncboy]

Can any body tell me whether or not all the information here applies to a Honda Civic Hybrid 2006 model? In particular:- can the car still be started and driven with a failed IMA battery?

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by jncboy

Can any body tell me whether or not all the information here applies to a Honda Civic Hybrid 2006 model? In particular:- can the car still be started and driven with a failed IMA battery?

In a general sense it applies to any hybrid, so

YES.

[IamIan]

Originally Posted by jncboy

Can any body tell me whether or not all the information here applies to a Honda Civic Hybrid 2006 model? In particular:- can the car still be started and driven with a failed IMA battery?

The parts about testing , quantifying , and servicing the IMA battery ... the concepts still apply ... the application will be slightly different.

As for can you start the car and drive it with a failed IMA battery ... yes & no ... not the same as the Gen-1 Insight ... AFAIK the 2006 Civic uses a CAN controlled DC-DC system ... so it is not as simple to take manual control of the DC-DC system to ensure you are getting 12V alternator charging functions ... possible but not the same ... I do know less about the civic than the Insight so ... you might want to double check ... if it does not ( as I suspect ) have a redundant 12V starter ( as the Gen-1 Insight has ) than without the IMA , you will need some other way to start the ICE ... If my more limited knowledge about the HEV Civic is wrong and it does still have a redundant 12V starter , than the concern falls mainly back the Alternator Functions of the DC-DC system.

[jncboy]

Thanks IAMIAN for your help. I shall have to seek further basic information about the 06 Civic Hybrid.

[MetroMPG]

Marathon pack analysis... complete!

I literally just finished. See for yourself: Google Docs spreadsheet of MetroMPG's pack analysis

And here's the summary:

• 6 of 20 sticks showed a discharge capacity below 5500 mAh (I'm told this is the capacity below which you should consider replacing them)

• 4873 mAh - the lowest discharge capacity found. This stick effectively limits the entire pack to this capacity, which is 75% of nominal.

• Waaay out of balance -the initial discharge revealed the pack was a mess, in terms of how close the sticks were to one another in state of charge (SOC).
  
  10 of the sticks were effectively "empty" (0% SOC); while one was as high as 43% SOC!
  
  As IamIan mentioned, it appears this was actually the biggest issue affecting the pack, rather than individual stick capacity loss (though they obviously both contribute).

• Unusually high self-discharge in one stick? I'm not 100% certain whether this was a mistake in my testing, but stick #15 showed very high self-discharge after 7 days relative to the other sticks. I retested it again after 3 days, and it was more in line with what I would expect to see, but to be safe, I think I'll retest it again after 7 more days.

Next steps:

My grid charger should arrive in the next week or so. I need to hook it up to the pack, reassemble everything, and put it in the car.

I'll make sure the pack is fully balanced before putting it back in the car.

Then I'll take it for a drive & see how it performs.

I haven't ruled out replacing some of the lower capacity sticks, but want to try it in its newly balanced state first.

[MetroMPG]

I'm happy to report... the battery pack appears to be happy once again!

I just got back from a ~75 km (~47 mi.) drive after re-installing the battery pack in the car. Here's what happened:

• I cleared the existing "check engine light" code (related to the battery) left over from last time I drove the car

• Before starting the engine, the dash showed 0 out of 20 bars on the battery gauge (ie. "empty"), despite having topped up all 20 subpacks/sticks one last time with the SuperBrain yesterday.

• After starting the engine, the dash showed 4 / 20 bars of charging while idling (if you don't know what that looks like in an Insight, see photo below)

[Battery pack charging @ 4/20 bars - doctored photo ]

• The 4/20 charging @ idle lasted for just a couple of minutes before the battery gauge suddenly climbed from 0 to 19 bars (within ~20 seconds), and charging ceased.

• Then I went for a ~75 km drive. I intentionally pulled multiple high-current discharges (using assist: accelerating up long hills; multiple accelerations from rest up to ~120 km/h / 70 mph onto the freeway; multiple cycles of top gear maximum acceleration from ~50-70 mph); multiple recharges (extended maximum braking regeneration on off-ramps & coasting regen down hills).

• The battery gauge never dropped below 16 bars, and never went above 19 bars.

• Most importantly: the check engine/IMA lights did not come on

Previously, ~20 km was the farthest I could drive the car without causing the error lights to come on, driving very conservatively. So, I'm calling this a successful "rejuvenation".

Next step: installing the grid charger to keep the pack balanced in the long run.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

I'm happy to report... the battery pack appears to be happy once again!

I just got back from a ~75 km (~47 mi.) drive after re-installing the battery
pack in the car. Here's what happened:

• Most importantly: the check engine/IMA lights did not come on

Previously, ~20 km was the farthest I could drive the car without causing the error lights to come on, even driving very conservatively. So, I'm calling this a successful "rejuvenation".

Next step: installing the grid charger to keep the pack balanced in the long run.

This is good news, now if I can get an insight without spending
2006 Honda Insight
that much, I will have a good template to follow on the battery.

Hopefully your battery lasts you many more years as-is.

[MetroMPG]

WOW - $13K Insight! Well, 2006 with a new battery and 50k miles... I'm inclined to say that might actually be worth looking at (if 13k is in a person's budget).

---

Of course, the true test of my pack "rejuvenation" project will be when the U.F.O. re-enters regular service again this summer.

[Formula413]

I hope I can see the same results as you, this makes me optimistic. Thanks for the thorough documentation.

[eq1]

You mentioned you had a P1449 code; did you ever check what subcodes you had, the 'blinking lights' codes?

Also, when you put the sticks back in the module, would it make sense to put the highest capacity stick where the lowest one was, the second highest where the second lowest one was, and so on?