Audi 100 2.5 TDi (C3)

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by LingLongRaceTeam

Idk

VAG were good in Marketing, Audi´s Slogan in Germany is "the lead trough technology".
Well the lead in technology always seemed to have others, but with Audi took often the pole position in the race to the scrapyard.

This C3 was for one year available with that engine, but the consumption in reality just was about 6 liters. Not bad, but not realy different then other engines.

And the first passenger car with direct injection Diesel came years before from Fiat, an 2.0 inline 4 in the Croma which was used till they switched to common rail in 1997, while VW/Audi continued to produce their pump-nozzle injection for ages, and refused to do necessary updates. While the french cars all had particle filters for years, VW just started experimenting in their customers cars in about 2005.. while talking about it since end of the 1980s.

In the end this were the reasons for their Diesel Emission theater, they just couldnt catch up with the competition anymore.

Maybe they couldn't catch up to the competition. But in the USA, they didn't have hardly, if any diesel car competition. If you wanted a diesel car you got a Volkswagen, or you paid a small fortune for some luxury brand, or you just didn't get a diesel car.

There were a lot of things I really liked about my ol' VW diesel. I wish there existed a car that offered the same experience nowadays.

[LingLongRaceTeam]

There were a lot of things I really liked about my ol' VW diesel. I wish there existed a car that offered the same experience nowadays.

@Isaac Zachary
Well, cars that loud, small and noisy you might find still in india.

But if you want to buy an newer decent real economic Diesel car in the US, its not VW its the Chevrolet Cruze 1.6.
Not the best reputation in the US for the gas versions, had some issues with warranty in the first model (Cracking coolant reservoir), but in general reliable and rugged.

A swiss hypermiler was (is?) holding an record with the same engine in a Opel (Buick Regal) 3,46Liter (67mpg) and 2111km with one fillup.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by LingLongRaceTeam

@Isaac Zachary
Well, cars that loud, small and noisy you might find still in india.

But if you want to buy an newer decent real economic Diesel car in the US, its not VW its the Chevrolet Cruze 1.6.
Not the best reputation in the US for the gas versions, had some issues with warranty in the first model (Cracking coolant reservoir), but in general reliable and rugged.

A swiss hypermiler was (is?) holding an record with the same engine in a Opel (Buick Regal) 3,46Liter (67mpg) and 2111km with one fillup.

Ya, the Cruze had crossed my mind. It wasn't that ithe Golf was diesel, noisy or made thick black clouds of smoke that made me like the car. It was that the car had some 500,000 miles on it and no signs it was going to ever die. The car felt immortal, even after all those miles. I drove it 14 times down into Mexico and back with it's never failing me, ever. Well, except for one small thing that was kind of my fault and was an easy 15 minute fix.

That, and it was very economical to drive. Once I drove over 600 miles and could only get 10.5 gallons into the fuel tank. And that was without any ecomods or really trying to get good fuel mileage. The car had only cost me $600 to begin with.

Another thing I loved about it was the extreme weight bias. The front was way heavier than the rear making it drive like a tank through snow without the need for AWD. (Although at higher speeds it did understeer quite a bit.)

I guess the manual shifter and low power also made it fun for me (I know, I'm weird.)

The person I sold it to is thinking of getting rid of it and I'm wondering if I should go get it from him. I just don't know of any other cars that get some 50mpg, that feel like they can make 500k miles without needing so much as a sparkplug change and that feels fun to drive for someone who doesn't like to go fast.

[LingLongRaceTeam]

its not weird, almost all our european ****box-hatchbacks are handling similar. ^^

I had an Seat Arosa (= VW Lupo) with an 1.7 non Turbo. 230.000 Miles in 4 Years. Cornered also pretty well, but had also its flaws. Parts were pretty expensive, every year a timing belt change, no A/C Available, and needed all the time new doorstraps.

that feel like they can make 500k miles without needing so much as a sparkplug change

The Non-Turbo engines were low mainteance compared to never ones, thats true. But off course they needed (and need) a little more then glow plugs.
Timing belt, injectors, and after a certain mileage the distributor injection pump needs some work.

I wouldnt go such long distances in these cars today, they were built to keep to price low, but such a lack of comfort wasnt even back in the day necessary. On the other hand the Golf was the sucessor of the bug, so for the typical VW Driver this was already ScienceFiction.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by LingLongRaceTeam

its not weird, almost all our european ****box-hatchbacks are handling similar. ^^

I had an Seat Arosa (= VW Lupo) with an 1.7 non Turbo. 230.000 Miles in 4 Years. Cornered also pretty well, but had also its flaws. Parts were pretty expensive, every year a timing belt change, no A/C Available, and needed all the time new doorstraps.



The Non-Turbo engines were low mainteance compared to never ones, thats true. But off course they needed (and need) a little more then glow plugs.
Timing belt, injectors, and after a certain mileage the distributor injection pump needs some work.

I wouldnt go such long distances in these cars today, they were built to keep to price low, but such a lack of comfort wasnt even back in the day necessary. On the other hand the Golf was the sucessor of the bug, so for the typical VW Driver this was already ScienceFiction.

Thanks for putting it into perspective. For long trips the car was rather uncomfortable. Still, the car seemed quite awesome for it's age.

What I liked about the Golf diesel was that it was easy to work on. I had a factory repair manual and could change everything myself. But the Toyota hybrids I have now are different. I want to change the brake fluid on them, but can't without a $600 tool and a $2000/year subscription. I even took the Avalon to the dealer (200 miles away) and asked if they would do it. They took the car, changed the oil instead and "forgot" to change brake fluid.

What I liked about the Golf is that it still didn't even burn oil, even with so many miles on it. I did have to change out a couple seals so it wouldn't leak, but that was about it. The Prius burns oil, about 2 quarts per oil change. And it has only 200,000 miles on it, less than half what the Golf had. And of course that has now fouled the catalytic converter. I'm looking at the possibility of having to change out the rings and pistons. And if the block is scratched, that would be the end of story for the Prius because the block can't be bored. Unlike the Golf, that if I ever did need to rebuild the engine I could bore the block and drop in some oversized pistons.

The Prius also is having hybrid battery problems, I had to change out a module because of a dead cell. I know this is a temporary fix, and will cost me potentially thousands to fix properly. My Golf never had a problem like that in the 7 years I owned it, and it was over 30 years old. The Prius I've only owned for one year, and it's only 15 years old. The Prius is also needing a wheel bearing, and the dash lights aren't working either now.

Long trips? I feel somewhat the other way around, I'd still take the Golf on a hundreds of miles trip, but not the Prius, even though it's much newer. Even if I got everything fixed on the Prius it would be a while before I trusted it.

In the Avalon, the radio stopped working and I can't figure out how to fix it. And looking in the previous owner's repair notes, this isn't the first time it has gone out. In the Golf I could just swap out the radio for something else if it ever stopped working. I did change the transaxle fluid and the radiator fluid on it though. But I still can't do the brake fluid. (How infuriating!)

I also use two sets of rims for winter and summer tires. Well that makes the TPMS light stay on all winter long. And these cars don't do near as well going slow in the snow.

It's just several little things like these that drive me nuts with newer cars.

[GreenTDI]

The earlier TDIs were unbeatable in terms of real consumption and performance. And as said before: also easy to work on and the pumpe-dose technique was dated, but reliable. A TDI has never been the most refined diesel on the market. (or the cleanest ...) But at the time, they never had to. They had many other assets which made them successful.

[Autobahnschleicher]

I've had to kind of overhaul my Toyotas engine (1ZZ-FED) as well due to excessive oil consumption.
I failed emissions due to the visible cloud coming out of the exaust.
The bores where still in pretty good condition without scratches and an intact cross-hatch pattern, so I just gave them a little hone, new rings and drilled the pistons.
Also:
A big fault was in the oil controll rings and drain holes.
They are both prone to clog up and seize, causing high oil consumption.
Valve stem seals also often go bad, wich increases oul consumption as well.
This results in carbon deposits everywhere.
Had several mm of carbon and ash on my exaust valves, piston crowns and combustion chamber.
Especialy the stuff on the exaust valves is a ***** to clean off, even with a drillpress and wirebrush.

Not sure if the Prius is the same, but I've heared the valve stem issue and oil controll ring issue are typical Toyota problems...

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by Autobahnschleicher

I've had to kind of overhaul my Toyotas engine (1ZZ-FED) as well due to excessive oil consumption.
I failed emissions due to the visible cloud coming out of the exaust.
The bores where still in pretty good condition without scratches and an intact cross-hatch pattern, so I just gave them a little hone, new rings and drilled the pistons.
Also:
A big fault was in the oil controll rings and drain holes.
They are both prone to clog up and seize, causing high oil consumption.
Valve stem seals also often go bad, wich increases oul consumption as well.
This results in carbon deposits everywhere.
Had several mm of carbon and ash on my exaust valves, piston crowns and combustion chamber.
Especialy the stuff on the exaust valves is a ***** to clean off, even with a drillpress and wirebrush.

Not sure if the Prius is the same, but I've heared the valve stem issue and oil controll ring issue are typical Toyota problems...

Thanks! I wasn't aware of the valve stem seals bring an issue on the Toyotas, but that would be an easier thing to reach than the rings.

Yes, I do believe oil control rings are the problem. I theorize it's a combination of small drain back oil holes, at the oil control rings, low tension compression rings and the fact nobody changes their oil as often as they really should. Most owner's manuals have two oil change schedules, and most people do the less often schedule even though their driving almost always fits into the more often oil change schedule.

But there point was I could get an old VW diesel that's in ok condition and probably drive it all over with very few problems that will be very cheap to fix. But I just don't feel that way with newer cars with even just half the mileage.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by LingLongRaceTeam

Well, cars that loud, small and noisy you might find still in india.

Small? Sure, and I see many of those Maruti Suzuki models with Uruguayan plates in Brazil during summer. Loud and noisy? Not anymore.

But if you want to buy an newer decent real economic Diesel car in the US, its not VW its the Chevrolet Cruze 1.6.

Even though nowadays the Cruze is made only in Argentina, and the current generation never got the Diesel there, this very same engine was retained in Korea for the Trax. It does surprise me the Trax never got the Diesel option in the U.S. though.

[LingLongRaceTeam]

Loud and noisy? Not anymore.

More like Tata Nano.

For the Diesel, Suzuki uses the Fiat 1.3JTD, also still in Brasil I guess. Real good small(est) engine, had 4 from these.
Suzuki had a lawsuit with VW because the germans demanded the japanese to buy their engines as part of a cooperation contract. The old suzuki guy didnt want to ruin his reputation, because with unreliable engines the Indians wont buy a suzuki for the next 3 generations anymore, and not with my name on the car, so he refused and they cancelled the cooperation at all.

this very same engine was retained in Korea for the Trax

Nope, the Trax/Mokka had a 1.7l. This is a way older engine that derived from the Isuzu 4EE1 from the early 1990s. This was modernised several types by GM/Opel und build in Poland. The common rails versions used in the Corsa C, and Astra G.
But they turned out to be the worst option because Opel were available with the way more advanced 1.3 JTD for the smaller cars, and the 1.9 JTD from the cooperation with Fiat.

The 1.6 is a complete different engine, the first (and probably last) Diesel that got actually developed by Opel, just in 2014/2015 so indeed realy new for a engine.

The Cruze will be the last option in the US for a realy long time to get a smaller, economical and reliable dieselcar. -

We might se a comeback from Stellantis (Chrylser/Fiat/Peugeot) but this will take a decade at least.