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Old 11-13-2010, 04:24 PM   #81 (permalink)
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attempts

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Originally Posted by max_frontal_area View Post
1. i intend to provide complete design/build/test data for all to see.

2. a Frank Lee design class "A" truck is a poor example/comparison for more than one reason. besides the cargo bay will be filled most of the time, especially with todays fuel prices dead heading is just bad policy.
now, back to the trailer. for once it would be nice for you to provide some data, studies, instances or the like instead of customarily laying a dark cloud over other ppls attempts.
This isn't my fight,and you can find my photo when you GOOGLE 'stubborn',so I know about following gut instinct and intuition,however,after reading your post from a position of 35-yrs 'observation',I suspect that your expectations will be dashed,soon after testing your creation.
There simply exists no empirical evidence,from 100-years of research that would suggest that your plan had any possibility of working.
I would highly recommend that you conduct model tests before commiting any serious money to full-scale development.
At 26-quadrillion tons,the atmosphere is a formidable foe.You want to tread carefully with your art of war.

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Old 11-13-2010, 08:20 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Can you point a way to the hucho book? It seems to be spoken of with a lot of reverence here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
According to Hucho's book,the gap is responsible for up to 20% of the rigs overall air drag and can mean an extra 10% mpg if you can make it go away.
If you 'rob' the airflow and shunt it internally,you will destroy the surrounding flow,precipitate flow separation,and ruin any chance for aft-body modifications to perform,as they are completely dependent on clean laminar onset flow from ahead.
The partial gap-fillers you see on contemporary 18-wheelers are a proven fuel-saver.
Consider that you want only a single collision with the air,not multiple strikes,then allow the air to decelerate while building static pressure,such that when it finally does separate,it's at the highest possible pressure.
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:39 PM   #83 (permalink)
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The Hucho is available only at university libraries (my wife got it from MIT), or you can buy it on Amazon or the SAE bookstore for $100.

Aerodynamics of Road Vehicles - SAE BOOKSTORE

Amazon.com: Aerodynamics of Road Vehicles: From Fluid Mechanics to Vehicle Engineering ([Proceedings] / SAE) (9780768000290): Wolf-Heinrich Hucho: Books
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Old 11-14-2010, 01:54 AM   #84 (permalink)
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AFAIK it's the aero Bible; I've not run across a better reference in all my years of studying it.
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Old 11-14-2010, 03:28 AM   #85 (permalink)
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So for the gap between the truck and trailer I am thinking of making some kind of a foam filled structure. Simular to what is on loading docks that the semi's back up into. That way when you turn it collapses when pinched and expands back to normal. Maybe fastened with velcro?

The newest boat tail made it 4500+ miles without any incidents. I even met a person that patented an inflatable boat tail. He said he followed me for a good long while and said he was surprised it didn't move at all. Glad to hear it since I can't see it.

I'll see about tuft testing it this week.
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Old 11-14-2010, 03:30 AM   #86 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamZipPow View Post
I think that works fer a loaded 18-wheeler trailer just fine because of the weights and lengths involved. Not sure how well it would work on a lighter trailer...
Also its so close to the ground anyway. I am thinking of smoothing off the bottom anyway.
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Old 11-14-2010, 03:38 AM   #87 (permalink)
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jasonG, ty for the link - yes indeed that is slick. and the suggestion to start a seperate thread!
braebyrn, maybe that is why we call them PREVAILING westerlies ;=}
varn, i believe i downloaded it from google books the other day
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Old 11-14-2010, 04:29 AM   #88 (permalink)
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suspicions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
This isn't my fight,and you can find my photo when you GOOGLE 'stubborn',so I know about following gut instinct and intuition,however,after reading your post from a position of 35-yrs 'observation',I suspect that your expectations will be dashed,soon after testing your creation.
There simply exists no empirical evidence,from 100-years of research that would suggest that your plan had any possibility of working.
I would highly recommend that you conduct model tests before commiting any serious money to full-scale development.
At 26-quadrillion tons,the atmosphere is a formidable foe.You want to tread carefully with your art of war.
you will find me within a few lines of your photo, however it is that special quality or curse which has allowed me access to some pretty cool discoveries.
had i always done as i was told in school i would have missed out on some truly wonderful experiences, the times being told "you cant do that" having been top inspiration to me.

can you please dig up some similar studies, i would like to read more on the subject.

i was awarded a student edition of Microstation for some work i had done
unfortunately Cosmos CFD was not part of the suite at the time of the award that will be the first step. when i worked at Northrop University (now defunct) their 1/4 scale atomspheric windtunnel was sold to Rice university
across the street, reacquintance with it would be the next step. dunno what ever happend to the supersonic tunnel they had?

in terms of expense, groovy http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post204002 was $500 which IS a lot of money to me, the embellishments to it in terms of $$ and materials shouldnt be, time however
will be more valuable.

thank you for your warning! i have been playing with and dodging wind since i was a youngster, i know it will soil your britches in one instant or try to kill you the next without even blinking.

according to your posts you've been to b-ville several times, have you missed
seeing the ducted cars while on the salt? how is it that these "non functioning ducts" allow cars which would otherwise be unsafe beyond certain vehicle specific threshholds to go as fast as their engines will propel them?

i have only been to the big lake once during a small meet, but spectated and
even competed at el mirage many times - during which times i have seen several ducted cars. one owner told me when i asked what this thing was sticking through the middle of his car: "it is a vent. nose lifts at 120."
he got spanked for using it, lost his "stock" status and was bumped up into the next higher (speed) class.
then he said "but i don't care cause i get to run my baby. we have been over 150 and at times the only thing that shakes - is her ass"

Black magic? compettitors psychology?
i dont think so.
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:22 AM   #89 (permalink)
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MFA, a ducted car solo and a truck towing trailer are two VERY different rigs. Phil's earlier comments covered this.

Cheers
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Old 11-14-2010, 12:04 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Good idea!

old...

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