Diesel flow meters

[oldbeaver]

Hello:

If one wants to monitor and quantify fuel consumption in a pre-OBD diesel, like many Mercedes and other European and Asian cars and engines, and want an accurate measure, the need of a couple of accurate, robust and cheap fuel flow meters is mandatory. Actually two are needed, on for main flow and the other for the return flow.

There are other ways to estimate fuel consumption, vía electronics, in which some members of the Fórum are experimenting.

This result (lt/h) can be addressed later to a onboard trip computer, together with the VSS signal (km/lt), such as MPGuino and other non OBD computers.

The list of the best fuel flow meters I have found follows. If someone has something else, please contribute to the thread.

LIST OF (diesel) FLOW METERS:

This is probably the most convenient:
Flow Sensor
Price: USD 12.9 a piece

BTFlowmeter:
FCH-m-POM-LC -0,8 LPM 97478617 : B.I.O-TECH Flowmeter

Differential Flow-calculator ARS 261: B.I.O-TECH Flowmeter
Price: not known, quotation asked.
 
Ada Fruit: Liquid Flow Meter - Plastic 1/2 NPS Threaded ID: 828 - $9.95 : Adafruit Industries, Unique & fun DIY electronics and kits
(I think this is for water only)
Price: USD 9.95

Technoton DFM:
http://www.jv-technoton.com/fuel_flo...uel_flow_meter
Price: USD 350.

This is heavy duty, very good and expensive too. This is composed of two flow meters that calculates main flow, return flow and the difference, and produce a signal with the result. So no need to build a circuit.

Someone knows other sources?

Oldbeaver

[Hilly-Billy-13]

Old Beaver,
I've been through more than a little bit of a learning experience with flow sensors. At this time the selection of what I feel are sensors suitable for measuring diesel fuel flow in our applications is limited. Flowcat makes the SF45a which is also sold by Flowscan, and used by Flowscan in a number of marine and aircraft installations and is the only metal cased unit, I found. GEMS sells the FT110 & FT210 series which appear to be the Vision 2000 & Vision 1000 product lines, and Atlas Scientific sells the TurboFlow-226000. The Vision, Gems, & Atlas Scientific are Turbine flow meters and if the turbine wheel quits turning due to dirt they will still flow fuel. Where as most paddle wheel sensors stop passing fuel if the paddle wheel gets jammed by dirt also a lot of paddle wheel sensors have issues with stop & start fuel flow. The Flowcat unit is listed as being able to flow fuel if the mechanism is stopped from turning by the manufacturer I'm not sure if it's a turbine unit though. Also the turbine units are a lot less fussy about their mounting options.

The Futurelec FLOWFUEL30L0 {http://www.futurlec.com/FLOWFUEL30L0.shtml} also known as the Savant FS-3400AH {http://www.digisavant.com/Products.aspx?C=3&T=13} is at it's full rated flow on the supply side of my 1500 cc VW Rabbit @ 55mph. The engine in my Rabbit has less than 40000 miles on it since a complete overhaul including the fuel system.

The downside to the SF45a, GEMS FT110 & FT210 series, Vision 2000 & Vision 1000 and Atlas Scientific TurboFlow-226000 is they cost more than the paddle wheel models, but if the a paddle wheel stops turning due to dirt and the fuel flow to your engine suddenly stops it could cost you a lot of money and even a life. I've found the Gems models are available outside of the US for a semi reasonable price.
Bill Higdon

Originally Posted by oldbeaver

Hello:

If one wants to monitor and quantify fuel consumption in a pre-OBD diesel, like many Mercedes and other European and Asian cars and engines, and want an accurate measure, the need of a couple of accurate, robust and cheap fuel flow meters is mandatory. Actually two are needed, on for main flow and the other for the return flow.

There are other ways to estimate fuel consumption, vía electronics, in which some members of the Fórum are experimenting.

This result (lt/h) can be addressed later to a onboard trip computer, together with the VSS signal (km/lt), such as MPGuino and other non OBD computers.

The list of the best fuel flow meters I have found follows. If someone has something else, please contribute to the thread.

LIST OF (diesel) FLOW METERS:

This is probably the most convenient:
Flow Sensor
Price: USD 12.9 a piece

BTFlowmeter:
FCH-m-POM-LC -0,8 LPM 97478617 : B.I.O-TECH Flowmeter

Differential Flow-calculator ARS 261: B.I.O-TECH Flowmeter
Price: not known, quotation asked.
 
Ada Fruit: Liquid Flow Meter - Plastic 1/2 NPS Threaded ID: 828 - $9.95 : Adafruit Industries, Unique & fun DIY electronics and kits
(I think this is for water only)
Price: USD 9.95

Technoton DFM:
Differential fuel flow meter DF
Price: USD 350.

This is heavy duty, very good and expensive too. This is composed of two flow meters that calculates main flow, return flow and the difference, and produce a signal with the result. So no need to build a circuit.

Someone knows other sources?

Oldbeaver

[oldbeaver]

Originally Posted by Hilly-Billy-13

Old Beaver,
I've been through more than a little bit of a learning experience with flow sensors. At this time the selection of what I feel are sensors suitable for measuring diesel fuel flow in our applications is limited. Flowcat makes the SF45a which is also sold by Flowscan, and used by Flowscan in a number of marine and aircraft installations and is the only metal cased unit, I found. GEMS sells the FT110 & FT210 series which appear to be the Vision 2000 & Vision 1000 product lines, and Atlas Scientific sells the TurboFlow-226000. The Vision, Gems, & Atlas Scientific are Turbine flow meters and if the turbine wheel quits turning due to dirt they will still flow fuel. Where as most paddle wheel sensors stop passing fuel if the paddle wheel gets jammed by dirt also a lot of paddle wheel sensors have issues with stop & start fuel flow. The Flowcat unit is listed as being able to flow fuel if the mechanism is stopped from turning by the manufacturer I'm not sure if it's a turbine unit though. Also the turbine units are a lot less fussy about their mounting options.

The Futurelec FLOWFUEL30L0 {http://www.futurlec.com/FLOWFUEL30L0.shtml} also known as the Savant FS-3400AH {http://www.digisavant.com/Products.aspx?C=3&T=13} is at it's full rated flow on the supply side of my 1500 cc VW Rabbit @ 55mph. The engine in my Rabbit has less than 40000 miles on it since a complete overhaul including the fuel system.

The downside to the SF45a, GEMS FT110 & FT210 series, Vision 2000 & Vision 1000 and Atlas Scientific TurboFlow-226000 is they cost more than the paddle wheel models, but if the a paddle wheel stops turning due to dirt and the fuel flow to your engine suddenly stops it could cost you a lot of money and even a life. I've found the Gems models are available outside of the US for a semi reasonable price.
Bill Higdon

Thank you very much for yr opinion and knowledge.

However, maybe due to my limited English, I got confused of which ones of the fuel flow meters you prefer, and which is the type of metering they use.

For example, I loved the Futurlec fuel flow meter. However, I would need to add a second meter and a circuit to calculate the difference between them. But it may be a good kit to start working with. It is a pity they don´t say which is the mechanical method used.

Can you summarize which kind of meters you address and the ones you dont?

Again, thank you.

Oldbeaver

[Hilly-Billy-13]

Old Beaver,
My preference is for the GEMS FT110 & FT210 series, Vision 2000 & Vision 1000 which are turbine units. The GEMS FT210 and Vision 1000 should handle a 1500cc to maybe 1900 cc engine. And the FT110 and Vision 2000 for the bigger engines. I don't have any idea as to the flows both supply & return on anything bigger than 1500 -1600cc. How big on an engine are you planning on monitoring?
Bill

[oldbeaver]

Originally Posted by Hilly-Billy-13

Old Beaver,
My preference is for the GEMS FT110 & FT210 series, Vision 2000 & Vision 1000 which are turbine units. The GEMS FT210 and Vision 1000 should handle a 1500cc to maybe 1900 cc engine. And the FT110 and Vision 2000 for the bigger engines. I don't have any idea as to the flows both supply & return on anything bigger than 1500 -1600cc. How big on an engine are you planning on monitoring?
Bill

Hello Hilly Billy,

Well, sorry for the delay.

My engine is a 3000cc 6 in line diesel engine, indirect injection Mercedes Benz, turbo. It is a 1993 model.

At present, I abandoned the idea of using existing signals in car to monitor fuel flow, and am back to use fuel flow sensors. Two companies from India seem to have a very close to what I need system, which I am in conversations to learn how much it would be.

I will keep forum up to date about this.

Oldbeaver

[oldbeaver]

Hello old diesel fellows,

This guy in India sells a complete system consisting of two diesel fuel flow meters (one for supply and one for return fuel) and a LCD digital display that calculates the difference of the two, for net fuel consumption (liters/hour).


Fuel Consumption Meter - Diesel Generator Fuel Consumption Meter, Automobile Fuel Consumption Meter, Vehicle Fuel Consumption Meter and Fuel Consumption Calculator Manufacturer & Exporter from Mehsana, India


To calculate accurate fuel efficiency, the only thing missing is to take speed in km/hour and divide by consumption, and get fuel efficiency in km/liter (or miles per gallon). With some programming, the result may be shown in the same digital display.

The programming may be done easily on this unit:

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_11154...popularArticle

Don´t know the price.

The programming may be done with the Ezylabtronics shown in autospeed forum: http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_11154...popularArticle

Oldbeaver

[Hilly-Billy-13]

Originally Posted by oldbeaver

Hello Hilly Billy,

Well, sorry for the delay.

My engine is a 3000cc 6 in line diesel engine, indirect injection Mercedes Benz, turbo. It is a 1993 model.

At present, I abandoned the idea of using existing signals in car to monitor fuel flow, and am back to use fuel flow sensors. Two companies from India seem to have a very close to what I need system, which I am in conversations to learn how much it would be.

I will keep forum up to date about this.

Oldbeaver

Based on my limited experience, I'd expect you flows to around 36 for supply and a return to be about .5 to 1 liter less per hour for idle. Depending on gearing your figures at 50-60 mph could be around 60 for supply and 50 for the return. These are guesses based on what I found with my 1.5 Rabbit

Bill

[Hilly-Billy-13]

My program is slowly taking shape, I'm using a ATmega 1284P because it supports 3 interrupts and is a through hole package

[oldbeaver]

Originally Posted by Hilly-Billy-13

Based on my limited experience, I'd expect you flows to around 36 for supply and a return to be about .5 to 1 liter less per hour for idle. Depending on gearing your figures at 50-60 mph could be around 60 for supply and 50 for the return. These are guesses based on what I found with my 1.5 Rabbit

Bill

Bill,

Please, clarify: I should expect a flow of 36 liters/hour for supply?

At 50 - 60 mph I should expect 60 liters for supply and 50 for return?

Please define the units and the period of time.

Thank you.

Oldbeaver

[Hilly-Billy-13]

Originally Posted by oldbeaver

Bill,

Please, clarify: I should expect a flow of 36 liters/hour for supply?

At 50 - 60 mph I should expect 60 liters for supply and 50 for return?

Please define the units and the period of time.

Thank you.

Oldbeaver

I apologized for not putting the requisite time interval, yes I'm referring to Liters per hour. Also if you're interested I can send you my unused Futurelec FLOWFUEL30L0. I don't have a use for it & you could use it with a frequency counter to get a base line measurement of your flows at idle and at some undetermined speed.

If you don't have a frequency counter there's a number of programs for the Arduino that will do what you need.
Bill