Federal Mogul Advanced Corona Ignition

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by some_other_dave

How much do you think is wasted in combustion now? 1%? 3%? 10%? 30%?

I think it may be less than 1% right now, so Magic Spark Plugs won't make much difference on their own.

-soD

Depends on how you define it, my 2.2 motor in certain lighter older rigs got 32mpg, my XFE gets 37mpg+

I think thermodynamic efficiency comparisons would tell how much fuel is really wasted.

If the same motor using different timing and motor controls using very similar gearing gets significantly better FE fuel must have been wasted on the previous motor? (even if it was burned somewhere)

[racerc2000]

I agree magic plugs wont make a diff on their own. and in most new cars the efficient nature is pre built in.

however. engines not specifically built for economy may find larger improvements then the ones that have been tweaked already.

for instance. hondas k24 (2.4L I4 with I-VTEC) (intake side only valve timing the economy vtec)

ranges from
Displacement: 2,354 cc (143.6 cu in)
Bore and Stroke: 87 mm x 99 mm (3.43x3.90 inches)
Compression: 9.6:1
Power: 160 hp (120 kW) @ 6000 rpm
Torque: 162 lb·ft (220 N·m) @ 5200 rpm
Redline: 7500 rpm

to

Displacement: 2,354 cc (143.6 cu in)
Bore and Stroke: 87 mm x 99 mm (3.43 x 3.90 inches)
Compression: 11.0:1
Power: 201 HP @ 7000 rpm
Torque: 170 lbs·ft @ 4400 rpm
Redline: 7000 rpm

with about 10+ variants between them not including the models that use intake and exhaust cam timing.

how would each one effect fuel economy or how would they react to such economy mods like these plugs etc?

I would assume the lower rpm torque could work out as better FE. would this be a wrong way of thinking? even though with the higher compression and higher peak HP its obviously not the economy engine.

[niky]

If I recall right, the XFE had significantly better aerodynamics and longer gearing. That would account for a lot of the highway gain.

-

The K24 engines would not see any gain from pulse plugs simply because they're not tuned for them... but it might make them idle better on poor quality low-octane E10 gas.

-

Trivially, the CR-V K24 has both more aggressive low-rpm cam lobes and less aggressive high-rpm cam lobes. This gives it better low-end performance to cope with the extra weight (both car and cargo) over other applications in the range. I've been wondering about swapping in TSX cams, for better economy down low and much better "kick" up high, but apparently the systems are not fully compatible due to the lack of VTEC on the exhaust side.

[racerc2000]

yea. and depending on specific k24. a k20 or tsx head swap is not a direct swap. some need fly cut pistons to clear the valves.

one thing I would like to see up close is.... the 2012 civic si engine.

k24 only intake side i-vtec and seems like they found the sweet spot of economy vtec.

2012 Honda Civic Si (US)
Displacement: 2,354 cc (143.6 cu in)
Bore and Stroke: 87 mm x 99 mm (3.43 x 3.90 inches)
Compression: 11.0:1
Power: 201 HP @ 7000 rpm
Torque: 170 lbs·ft @ 4400 rpm
Redline: 7000 rpm

considering the 2010 element is
Compression: 9.7:1
Power: 166 hp @ 5800 rpm
Torque: 161 lb·ft (218 N·m) @ 4000 rpm

and 2010 crv
Compression: 10.5:1
Power: 180 HP @ 6800 rpm
Torque: 161 lbs·ft @ 4400 rpm

I can see the tsx vs honda trucks being a diff tune but is it really necessary to have so many changes even during the same year on simmilar vehicles?

it should have just been k20 (car) k24 (truck) but I guess that would be too easy so now they have 3 diff k24s for 2012

and now the exhaust manifold is cast into the head

2012 Honda Civic Si (US)
2012 Honda CR-V (US)
2012 Honda Crosstour

[niky]

It doesn't make a huge amount of sense to have the engines so different mechanically, but in terms of cams and tuning, it's very important, even on models that are outwardly similar but in different weight classes.

I can only imagine that it's a cost thing on the Element. Using the older tune to save money versus upgrading to the current CR-V spec. Hyundai-Kia pulled a similar thing with the older Soul variants.

[gone-ot]

Has ANY major ICE manufacturer signed-on to use their system yet?

[cfg83]

niky -

Originally Posted by niky

It doesn't make a huge amount of sense to have the engines so different mechanically, but in terms of cams and tuning, it's very important, even on models that are outwardly similar but in different weight classes.

I can only imagine that it's a cost thing on the Element. Using the older tune to save money versus upgrading to the current CR-V spec. Hyundai-Kia pulled a similar thing with the older Soul variants.

Yeah, since the Element was end-of-life, there would be minimal to no incentive to invest money in improving it. The Element used to have a manual option, but I am guessing they cancelled that to save money.

CarloSW2

[Frank Lee]

Still don't know why Federal Mogul is no longer a reputable company...

[cfg83]

Frank -

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Still don't know why Federal Mogul is no longer a reputable company...

I am guessing that because the thread is about a "mysterious sparkplug contraption", Federal Mogul is being associated with spark plug charlatans we've dealt with in the past.

There is still a long way to go to get to public consumption. I remember watching a gizmo by Arvin Meritor. ArvinMeritor is also a real company (renamed Meritor in 2011), but the gizmo never got out of the lab, and ArvinMeritor sold their emissions division.

CarloSW2

[niky]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

Has ANY major ICE manufacturer signed-on to use their system yet?

It's doubtful they ever will, not unless cost is favorable. Lump it in with laser ignition and HCCI (though with knock sensors getting better, we might be ten years away from getting it in production... or not)...

If the plugs do as advertised, they'll probably not net more than 1-2 mpg on today's already efficient direct injection engines... which manufacturers would be able to get by simply incrementally upping the pressure threshold for injectors... which they're already paying an arm and a leg for, anyway.