Heat Engines

[vteco]

Oh and re. the Scuderi engine, I hadn't heard of it before. It's interesting. But it's not a heat engine, of course. It's IC, and not amenable to solid fuel.

[freebeard]

I guess it's a stretch. It seems to me that any 120PSI or greater compressed air source (like a Stirling engine) could be interpolated.

The Scuderi story is sad. The inventor burnt through his bankroll trying to make a proprietary inline four engine. Then his heirs were no help. So....15 years on a patent?

Were I he, I'd've started with a flat-four VW engine with two different paired cylinder displacements. The only proprietary parts would be the cam and cranshaft. Maybe a reassembled roller bearing crank.

I forsaw it in a shop truck tricycle that would roll as a two-cylinder street trike, or roll around the shop on compressed air from the shop air tank. maybe a big honkin' alternator for welding.

[vteco]

The idea that steam engines have to be relatively big and slow persists mainly because they were largely abandoned in technological development for most transportation uses in the beginning of the last century. Big lumbering piston powerplants were the rule then, frozen in time. And then it stopped.

Well, except for the efforts of one tiny stalwart group of amateur model engineers, mainly in Britain who had been quietly racing tethered model steam hydroplanes.

In a racing traditionover a century old, these guys developed amazing engines in garden shed workshops, competing with each other year after year. Trial and error created a line of technical steam advancements that to me is mind boggling. One cubic inch engines turning more than 10,000 rpm and producing multiple horsepower driving boats over a hundred miles an hour these days. There is nothing sedate or old fashioned about these engines. They put out huge power for their size and displacement.

Here's a class A racing steam hydroplane being readied and then released, accelerating to scary speeds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdeUe9JcBVU

[freebeard]

I take your point, bu thtat's 2:49 of bad camera angle, then a lot of un-necessary panning if they'd just zoomed out a bit. Are we to assume that's a flash boiler and prop driven boat.

Are there restrictive rules?

My second favorite aerospace company is ArcaSpace. They have an electrical steam rocket. Does that count as a heat engine?

Then there was Alexander Lippisch

The Lippisch P.12, P.13a and P.13b were related design projects for a ramjet-powered delta wing interceptor aircraft studied in 1944 by German designer Alexander Lippisch... The P.13a and b were to be powered by producer gas made in-flight from powdered coal.

[vteco]

Yes to prop driven flash steam.
No I don't know the rules but you could look them up.

No, I don't think of rockets or jets as heat engines per se. Heat engines are usually meant to describe external combustion piston engines. There are many varieties, but they have in common the need to pass heat through a heat exchanger of some sort to heat a fluid that drives a working piston. At least that's what I think of, and mean here.

I know about Lippisch and for years was an avid R/C model builder. I've built a true flying wing (nurflugel) that maneuvers without any vertical tail surface. But that's a whole other subject.

Here's some of the parts for a flash steam engine I've been working on -- my version of a de-rated racing engine, loosely based on the world record holder's.

I cast and machined all of the iron parts, including the Dykes piston ring. I also cast the exhaust collector, not machined yet. The con-rod big end bearing is a roller type. Yet to do are the crankshaft and geared pumps. The original intent is to try to see if would be applicable as a solid fueled outboard motor for a full sized skiff.

[Logic]

If you have more wood than you know what to do with and the time to collect it, I see no reason why you couldn't generate home electricity with a steam engine turning a generator.

Especially if you design it so that you make use of the waste heat to heat the house and water etc.
Even cook!

(As a South African I love a braai. That's a barbecue using wood coals to 'braai' meat etc, giving it a delicious smokey flavour.
Nothing tastes better! )

From what I can see here; you are more than capable of making a very good and efficient steam engine if the mood takes you.
Very nice work!
(Interesting that they seem to need mufflers!? A condenser (radiator) may be the ticket?)

As for getting to town and back on heat engine (wood) power I would say that an 'home charged' EV is probably your best bet..?

As there's a lot of water in the lubricating oil of steam engines it occurs to me that Boric Acid (in said oil) is likely a great idea.
There's plenty of links (and argument) on it all from around here onward:
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...e-26602-3.html

[vteco]

Hi Logic, yes you're right about the condenser in general.

The little high speed flash steam engine was intended for use in a boat as a very small outboard motor, which already has a huge supply for water, but needs to be compact and relatively uncomplicated.

For a larger engine used for CHP in the home, a condenser would be the way to go.

I do have a full sized twin Westinghouse type steam engine which would have been used for electrical generation. I haven't rebuilt it yet. The big problem (and startup expense) for all steam engines is the boiler. There are lots of Mickey Mouse (and dangerous, or short-lived) amateur boilers on YouTube. I'm not interested in taking chances that way, so a boiler is not available yet for me.

If you or anyone else wants to see a fascinating series on a steam powered automotive workshop please look up on Youtube David Richards Steam Powered Workshop. I suggest starting at the beginning. I love doing machine work and metal casting, so a machine shop run on steam is truly fabulous to me.

I smoke the trout that I catch on wood. I have some videos up on fishing and an ultralight row boat I built some years ago. My channel is called srhacksaw.

[Logic]

Originally Posted by vteco

The little high speed flash steam engine was intended for use in a boat as a very small outboard motor, which already has a huge supply for water, but needs to be compact and relatively uncomplicated.

Ah yes; a condenser is way too heavy and no need to re use the water on water.
Exhaust below waterline?

Originally Posted by vteco

I do have a full sized twin Westinghouse type steam engine which would have been used for electrical generation. I haven't rebuilt it yet. The big problem (and startup expense) for all steam engines is the boiler. There are lots of Mickey Mouse (and dangerous, or short-lived) amateur boilers on YouTube. I'm not interested in taking chances that way, so a boiler is not available yet for me.

I had a quick look. Those seem huge!? like 250HP? That's way too much for a house?

Yes boilers (and the plumbing) is simply NOT the place to cut corners!
I don't know enough to even consider playing with steam. I should try looking it up.

You've got me thinking about steam from waste ICE heat again...
As in:
Run the ICE exhaust through a heat exchanger; run a steam engine off that, that helps the ICE..?
This makes some sense for a stationary engine/s like a genset or water pump.
Do you know anyone doing this?

Originally Posted by vteco

If you or anyone else wants to see a fascinating series on a steam powered automotive workshop please look up on Youtube David Richards Steam Powered Workshop. I suggest starting at the beginning. I love doing machine work and metal casting, so a machine shop run on steam is truly fabulous to me.

I smoke the trout that I catch on wood. I have some videos up on fishing and an ultralight row boat I built some years ago. My channel is called srhacksaw.

I've opened both. thx. I'll have a look.

[Logic]

Originally Posted by vteco

The idea that steam engines have to be relatively big and slow persists mainly because they were largely abandoned in technological development for most transportation uses in the beginning of the last century. Big lumbering piston powerplants were the rule then, frozen in time. And then it stopped.

Well, except for the efforts of one tiny stalwart group of amateur model engineers, mainly in Britain who had been quietly racing tethered model steam hydroplanes.

In a racing traditionover a century old, these guys developed amazing engines in garden shed workshops, competing with each other year after year. Trial and error created a line of technical steam advancements that to me is mind boggling. One cubic inch engines turning more than 10,000 rpm and producing multiple horsepower driving boats over a hundred miles an hour these days. There is nothing sedate or old fashioned about these engines. They put out huge power for their size and displacement.

Here's a class A racing steam hydroplane being readied and then released, accelerating to scary speeds:

Holy Prac!
That puts steam a a whole different light!
1 cubic inch at 10 000 rpm means small, light and efficient? engines!
Is there a web site for this?
I'd love to see more on how they're made.

[vteco]

Exactly, Logic!

heh, now you see the need for a muffler on mine. You could maybe run the exhaust underwater, like a conventional outboard. I wasn't nearly at that point yet, though. Just building the engine.

I've been building up little bits and pieces of information about high speed flash steam engines for years. Best description of the history and mechanics etc (of both small and large) is the book "Experimental Flash Steam" by Benford.

I have tons of past issues of Model Engineer the British magazine, dating back to 1890's. These racing hydroplane engines are an amazing historical topic to me. Just a handful of people have ever pursued it, but their innovations down through the decades (well century, actually) are really awe inspiring.

Anyway, the one I was building was to be a detuned version -- I thought about it as both a small outboard motor (I was gioing to use an old Elgin outboard motor I have as the lower unit) and as a small stationary generator for camping.

An alternative plan for a boat motor was to do it as a generator for an electric trolling motor rig.

I was thinking it would be really cool if you could use a supply of twigs and pine cones etc, found on shore as fuel, as you went.