Honda motor swap, opinions?

[hamsterpower]

Do what your heart says, because neither option will net a $ savings. If you have a need for hills and ramps or carry a full load often then the stronger motor MIGHT help. I say might because all that extra HP is from the big lobe of the cam, and comes in WELL above the revs used in normal driving. and the small lobe of the cam may actually give you less usable HP.
Combine that with the tall geared transmission and it gets tougher to see the power gains. My Civic has a B16 (170hp) swapped in from when I was a silly boy with dreams of speed. Yet with the taller but still short geared transmission from an Integra LS it nets mid 30s MPG easy. About what I got with the stock d15 (108hp) way back. Until I let the revs build up it bogs and strains the same or worse with the "stronger" motor because it is not usable power.

[serialk11r]

I actually think the D16 might improve your fuel economy, because the small cam has lower lift and should improve combustion stability at very low rpm. That said, in the midrange it could induce more throttling losses because it has more torque available, so hard to say. I think if you're putting in a new motor you should take the opportunity to shave the head for higher compression, since it's easier/cheaper with the motor out of the car.

[owendavidj]

I have looked into insights. not a big fan of the high cost of battery replacement. insights themselves as they're awesome vehicles and pioneers here, you seem to have a lot of issues and complaints.

one of the things I love most about my Civic is it super natural source of reliability. my part time job brings me out of town on a weekly basis. not to mention maintenance on these things is retardedly cheap.
also not that there's anything wrong with it, but in my personal opinion I feel, too many people look at cars as disposable, I like the idea of keeping a car until somebody wrecks it.

I really appreciate you guys input. I think if I can be easy on my gas and squeeze 40 mpgs out of this D 16, I'll be happy, and I haven't even started my aerokit yet, I definitely plan on doing a full build on this one. I think my main concern is that I would get 35 mpg or less, but the more I talk to people on here in Honda-tech forum I feel confident thinking I can start with 40 mpg.

[owendavidj]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I actually think the D16 might improve your fuel economy, because the small cam has lower lift and should improve combustion stability at very low rpm. That said, in the midrange it could induce more throttling losses because it has more torque available, so hard to say. I think if you're putting in a new motor you should take the opportunity to shave the head for higher compression, since it's easier/cheaper with the motor out of the car.

I'm def having the head shaved after my last chat with my mechanic.

[owendavidj]

Originally Posted by hamsterpower

Do what your heart says, because neither option will net a $ savings. If you have a need for hills and ramps or carry a full load often then the stronger motor MIGHT help. I say might because all that extra HP is from the big lobe of the cam, and comes in WELL above the revs used in normal driving. and the small lobe of the cam may actually give you less usable HP.
Combine that with the tall geared transmission and it gets tougher to see the power gains. My Civic has a B16 (170hp) swapped in from when I was a silly boy with dreams of speed. Yet with the taller but still short geared transmission from an Integra LS it nets mid 30s MPG easy. About what I got with the stock d15 (108hp) way back. Until I let the revs build up it bogs and strains the same or worse with the "stronger" motor because it is not usable power.

This is good insight. I'm giving it a chance, hope I'm happy with it!

[Ecky]

I can respect the desire to preserve a good car. Not trying to further convince you to change cars, but would just like to put forth that Insights are actually rather trouble-free too. Supernaturally reliable, you might even say.

Common issues:

-Rear engine mount often lasts less than 10-15 years, because it's a 3 cylinder with a lot of vibration

-Driver window switch tends to lose its "spring", but can be fixed with a $2 3d printed part

-EGR needs to be cleaned about once per decade

-Oil pan is easy to strip, being magnesium, so most owners opt not to let gas station garages change their oil. I have a fumoto valve on mine to help prevent this.

-Hatch door handle and power locks have a design problem that causes them to fail early. I replaced mine for $20 each with aftermarket units

-Battery pack lasts 10-20 years depending on your climate without service, but Honda gave a 10 year warranty on them, and mine was replaced with a new battery in 2010. Some are still under warranty, and replacement batteries range from $500 to $2000. Many packs will last much longer with occasional grid charging. Even without the hybrid battery the car still functions normally, just without electric assist.

-I wouldn't trust a CVT over 200k miles, but how many ecomodders are buying CVTs anyway?

The 5MT is bulletproof. There's a design flaw in the timing of the syncros that may cause a grind when downshifting from 3rd to 2nd, but double clutching is an easy workaround.


Off the top of my head, those are the problems that generally tend to show up. There are plenty of examples of Insights that aren't burning oil well past 300,000 miles, and even some examples of 600k+ Insights on the stock drivetrain.

If my battery pack were to suddenly and catastrophically decline tomorrow, I'd probably just keep driving it and ignore it, but as it is I expect to get many more years out of the pack.

Plus, it's almost entirely aluminum. Rust-free = awesome.

Check here: Buying A Used 2000-2006 Honda Insight Hybrid: The Guide

In reality, the drivetrain components are quite happy doing several hundred thousand miles--and as a highly-efficient car, owners tend to treat them gently and maintain them well, to ensure good economy.

The good news is that the Insight is, in general, incredibly reliable.

For a 1-liter car, the mileage some drivers have put on Insights with no major issues is extraordinary.

Small oil leaks can develop here and there, engine mounts can degrade over time leading to vibration under acceleration, but stuttering and lack of low-revs power can be caused by other issues too--clogged exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) systems, dirty air filters (all easy fixes) or the dreaded IMA system.

Actually, the IMA isn't that bad. Most issues will be battery- related rather than motor-related.

The battery replacement or refurbishment window can be anywhere between 75,000 and 175,000 miles. It's complete pot-luck, but they don't tend to just "fail" so slow charging and discharging are usually indications well ahead of time.

Refurbishment is cheapest. Replacement can be expensive and goes some way to offsetting the car's excellent economy, though the new battery is likely to last another hundred-plus thousand miles.

Honda tells us the price of a first-gen Insight battery is currently $1,968.85.

Keep potential battery issues in mind--and ensure you can afford them if they happen--and the first-generation 2000-2006 Honda Insight is not a difficult car to buy.

Mileage doesn't seem to faze it despite the tiny engine, mechanical issues are few, and corrosion isn't a big problem even in the snow belt states.

[some_other_dave]

Originally Posted by owendavidj

I think if I can be easy on my gas and squeeze 40 mpgs out of this D 16, I'll be happy...

I averaged 42 MPG in my D16A6-powered CRX over three years. I had several 50 MPG tanks, too. The only mods were to "the loose nut behind the wheel". Plus tire pressure.

-soD