Lightyear One - from solar racer to commercial product

[All Darc]

Cheaper :

Originally Posted by RedDevil

Lightyear is planning a cheaper version coming in 2023:
https://eindhovennews.com/news/2020/...er-solar-cars/

Aiming at producing 100.000 cars a year for just €50.000 (about $55K).
At least at that price point it would no longer be vastly more expensive than a Model 3 and a solar roof on the house...

[All Darc]

The problem is that what someone would pay in such vehicle, at such price range, and with Li-ION battery that last just a few years, it's more expensive than the gas of a usual engine car.

For other side simple inventions are affordable, but not pretty in design :















With exception of the last two images, we can see how view angle became a problem for the driver. Top view get covered, and even front view it's limited.
At least are decent projects somehow, even some being quite DIY.

But I found another cathegory of projects, and I named it DDIY (DON'T DO IT YOURSELF) :

Originally Posted by RedDevil

First drive impression and lots of nice photos here:
[URL="https://electrek.co/2020/01/14/lightyear-one-first-look/"]https://electrek.co/2020/01/14/lightyear-one-first-look/

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by All Darc

The problem is that what someone would pay in such vehicle, at such price range, and with Li-ION battery that last just a few years, it's more expensive than the gas of a usual engine car.

It would make more sense to compare it to EVs that are now on the market.

At €50,000 it would be more expensive than some EVs, but not extremely so.
You'd pay way less on electricity, as it has 5 square meter of satellite grade solar panels and an extremely low consumption per mile anyway.

Modern and well tended batteries should last way longer than a few years. Because of the gentle solar recharging, light weight and low drag of the car this battery has an easier life than in other EVs. As it is 'only' 60 kWh it should be relatively cheap to replace anyway.
It should be less of a problem than with regular EVs like Teslas. Which aren't bad in that aspect already.


Comparing the Lightyear with the DIY EVbikes makes even less sense than comparing a Tesla with a G-Wiz or a milk float.

[All Darc]

If Lightyear One have supercapacitors, then the solar roof will help to keep the batteries a longer life, but I would say 10% or less of extra life.
It if there are no supercacitor, this will not happens. It the solar cells "pump" energy to the battery it will not increase the life of the battery since each energy that came in and came out shortens battery life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHneQurCmnE

Originally Posted by RedDevil

Modern and well tended batteries should last way longer than a few years. Because of the gentle solar recharging, light weight and low drag of the car this battery has an easier life than in other EVs. As it is 'only' 60 kWh it should be relatively cheap to replace anyway.
It should be less of a problem than with regular EVs like Teslas. Which aren't bad in that aspect already.


Comparing the Lightyear with the DIY EVbikes makes even less sense than comparing a Tesla with a G-Wiz or a milk float.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

At €50,000 it would be more expensive than some EVs, but not extremely so.
You'd pay way less on electricity, as it has 5 square meter of satellite grade solar panels and an extremely low consumption per mile anyway.

$50k for a substandard EV is no bargain. I'd be surprised if they ever sold 1000 units.

Maybe solar is more important in other countries where electricity is expensive. In the US, it's hard to justify solar when electricity is $0.12/kWh on average.

Then again, if I were paying something crazy like $0.40/kWh, I'd put those panels on my roof and angle them optimally to maximize electricity production.

Originally Posted by All Darc

If Lightyear One have supercapacitors, then the solar roof will help to keep the batteries a longer life, but I would say 10% or less of extra life.
It if there are no supercacitor, this will not happens. It the solar cells "pump" energy to the battery it will not increase the life of the battery since each energy that came in and came out shortens battery life.

What's worse than battery degradation is the fact that the solar panels will spend 99.9% of the time either not aimed optimally enough to maximize solar production, or the battery will already be full so the solar energy has to be wasted. People will have to do complex planning based on forecasted sunshine and anticipated parking locations to determine how much to charge from the grid so they can maximize the amount they can receive from the solar panels.

This is a dumb idea. A very, very dumb idea. As I've said, you're better off attaching pedal generators in the passenger seating areas. At least then they can generate 200W regardless of solar conditions.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

First drive impression and lots of nice photos here:
https://electrek.co/2020/01/14/lightyear-one-first-look/

If it has hub motors it appears to be in the correct environment. Show rooms, parking lots and moving at approximately 0mph.

[All Darc]

Sion... They said solar roof it's 2000w output in ideal conditions.
I don't believe it.
There are many solar cells, but they are in different position in relation to the sun.
It's impossible find a angle where all cells can have decent sunshine light reaching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4zidi2DEUs

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by All Darc

Sion... They said solar roof it's 2000w output in ideal conditions.
I don't believe it.
There are many solar cells, but they are in different position in relation to the sun.
It's impossible find a angle where all cells can have decent sunshine light reaching.

So ideal is anywhere between the tropic of cancer when the sun is straight over head at noon local.

[RedDevil]

When a company designs, presents and actually builds the most economical car ever you'd think the incrowd of Ecomodder would show at least some enthousiasm.

Instead the reception is like what you'd get if you hand out iPhones in a pensioners's home. Probably worse, even.

OK boomers, I wasted my time. Beam me up Scotty, no life here.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

When a company designs, presents and actually builds the most economical car ever you'd think the incrowd of Ecomodder would show at least some enthousiasm.

Instead the reception is like what you'd get if you hand out iPhones in a pensioners's home. Probably worse, even.

OK boomers, I wasted my time. Beam me up Scotty, no life here.

I'm excited about it as a science project for college kids, not as a consumer product. My curiosity is in the data, like where is the thing used, average daily kWh charging via solar vs wall power... stuff like that.

There's more economical cars than that like:


...but then we get into a "those are apples and that's an orange" discussion, because everything that is not completely identical is an apples and oranges discussion.

My enthusiasm for things like solar power and efficiency are tempered by reality. That leads me to the reality that permanently fixing solar panels in an optimal location is more efficient than lugging them around on a car. So really, there's no conflict between my interest in efficiency and this engineering experiment.

Then there's the fact that it's easier to criticize something terrible than it is to propose something excellent.

Anyhow, I'm a Millennial, and iPhones don't excite me, whatever that says about me.

I meant no disrespect to you RD, and I'm grateful that you shared this news. It's just my knee-jerk reaction whenever the topic of solar vehicles comes up. I'd rather be wrong about it being a terrible idea, which is why I'm always hoping someone will show me how I hadn't thought this through correctly, or that I don't have the necessary info to make such a judgement.

As an aside, I built an electric car in highschool, and the rules of the race allowed for 1m^2 of PV. Back in 1999 that would have been fantastically expensive on a highschool budget. Then it would have performed poorly in Oregon. Finally, it would have been destroyed in the first crash (there were many). I entertained that idea more than just about anything else, but there was no way to justify it.