Moody Diesel

[kadams@melvinjoseph.com]

Originally Posted by sidebar78

oh, I forgot to add this car is turbocharged and runs an alternator.this is what can be done when a genuwine automotive genious sets his mind to achieving the impossible. Ralph Moody was instrumental in the development of the Ford 427 side oiler engine, the Boss 428 and the 429 Shotgun engine

I can verify the existance of the Moodymobile because we have it in our shop here in Delaware. My grandfather, Melvin Joseph, worked with Ralph on the project after he and Shetley parted ways. We still tag the car and drive it ocassionally. The mileage claims were certified at the Transportation Research Center of Ohio.

[sidebar78]

Thanks for posting, your grandfather,Ralph Moody and thier team were patriots.I don't believe they were interested in mass producing automobiles.the Arab oil crises held this country by the throat.Ralph being a WWII vet felt strongly about that.he wanted to show them that American ingunuity could step up.but the big auto companys felt threatened they didn't want to invest in an unprovened product,and when the enbargo was over they felt they would be stuck with a car nobody wanted.so they leaned on congress.didn't pass emmissions tests my eye! a vehical getting that kind of milage is burning most of it's fuel and running clean.the auto companys and congress should of of jumped on the band wagon.Haralded the Moody mobile and pressured the Arabs to lift the embargo.maybe it did,the Arabs did lift the embargo shortly after the introduction of the Moodymobile.if thats the case it did it's job,but Ralph your grandfather and the team should of gotton the credit from a gratefull nation,instead they got the shaft.as for me I salute them,god bless them and I totally get what they tried to do

[user removed]

Rationally speaking.

Moody proved a point, that cars could be built to be much more efficient, but he is a long way from the only one who did that.

The 1984 Honda CRX HF was good for 73 MPG at 55 MPH, from the factory, without any emission problems. Diesel cars followed Moody's model from many manufacturers, and Europe today is building many Diesel powered cars that get fantastic mileage.

Look up the Audi A2 diesel versions. Modern European diesels are clean and powerful enough for any highway in the US. Why don't they come here? Some do come here.

Another obstacle to diesels in the US, at least until recently, was high sulphur content in the fuel, because the truckers wanted cheap fuel.

Diesel particulate emissions are a problem, maybe overstated, maybe not. Emission legislation has always been a political football, and there will always be the battles of the stronger lobbies, with the vast resources of the conglomerates.

Maybe one of these days the US will actually embark on the new Manhattan Project, where efficiency is the priority. While clean emissions are now the top priority, progress continues on engines that are so clean they need no after treatment. Compared to the Perkins engine in Moody's car the difference can be measured in tens to hundreds of times lower emissions, partially due to the fuels used at the time and partially due to the ability of computer controls, while preheated hypercritical fuel delivery brings the internal combustion engine into the future with efficiencies of 60% on the threshold of realization.

The development of power trains also promises to increase overall efficiency by 80% with no other changes. I still see the hydraulic option as a key component regardless of the energy supply used for fuel.

Every time the price spikes in the US (never saw $4 a gallon, in the 70s, and I was driving in 1966) after the original oil embargo. The manufacturers have responded with efficient vehicles. The real problem is the fact that Saudi Arabia can pump oil out of the ground for $2 a barrel. We in the US have become accustomed to gas at $3-3.50 per gallon. The spikes have just made us complacent with higher average prices.

The sad thing is there are solutions here right now, that need no further development. The corporate average fuel economy requirements should be 50 MPG today in the US, with the priority on economy, with safety and emissions very close behind. This is the exact opposite of what is being done. I can take a 3 cylinder Kubota and stick it in a 84 CRX shell, add some aero, and get 100 MPG at 50 MPH. Like Iaccoca said, it's not rocket science.

Eventually the situation will be resolved, but expect resistance to continue in every aspect when it comes to any dramatic advancement.

"Do you want to wipe out employment in the transportation infrastructure and kill millions of jobs."

That is what I was told at my US Senators office.

"Do you want the used car market value to collapse."

Same office.

My father was a pioneer in computerizing the payroll of the US Air Force, starting in 1955. He had to fight every inch of the way to get the base comptrollers to move from hand punched pay checks to automated payroll systems. They tried everything including prostitutes to get him in a compromising situation and destroy his credibility.

The same status quo inertia in the current industry is identical.

Look at the history of gas prices and you can see, when OPEC saw a direct threat to their monopoly they responded by destroying the competition with lower prices. They did it the last time in the winter of 09 when prices here dropped below $2 a gallon. Factor in inflation and that's about the same price it was in 1972 at 32 cents a gallon.

regards
Mech

[Diesel_Dave]

Originally Posted by sidebar78

didn't pass emmissions tests my eye! a vehical getting that kind of milage is burning most of it's fuel and running clean

As someone who's tuned diesels to meet emissions I can assure you that better fuel economy does NOT necessarily mean lower emissions. With CO and hydrocarbons, that's generally the case. NOx generally goes the opposite way as efficiency because NOx is driven by temperature. Hi temp = Hi NOx = Hi efficiency. Just look at what happend with the lower NOx emissions that came in in 2003 for heavy duty trucks. Fleet efficiency had historically improved by about 0.5% every year. In 2003 it DECREASED for the first time because of the stricter NOx limits.

As far as the car goes it is a pretty cool story. I remember hearing another story about a group of engineers in the oil crisis modified a VW diesel and got 100 mpg (under some very ideal conditions). I'll have to see if I can find the story.

But folks shouldn't be too amazed at the car. It was an 1.8L turbodiesel in a fairly small passenger car. Just look at the small diesel cars that the Europeans are running these days. They're pretty much in the same range (Remember, 80 mpg on the highway is very different from a 80 mpg highway rating). I think the VW diesel Rabbits in the 80's had highway ratings in the high 50's and I think those we naturally aspirated.

Now, making a car like that can meet current NOx limits (and PM limits w/ a DPF), and still make it affordable in the US market is the challenge...

[slowmover]

I think the VW diesel Rabbits in the 80's had highway ratings in the high 50's and I think those we naturally aspirated.

Went to a private college with a guy who paid his way by having worked the Trans-Alaska Pipeline. He "commuted" that 4,150-miles from Anchorage to San Antonio twice yearly and reported an easy 45+ mpg in a loaded down Rabbit diesel.

.

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by oldmechanic

Maybe one of these days the US will actually embark on the new Manhattan Project, where efficiency is the priority.

They did!!! It was called Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles (PNGV) and we- the taxpayers- poured millions if not billions into it over how many years to fund a consortium of govt and auto industry research for fuel efficient family sedans. What did we get? Prototypes from the Big Three that all achieved about 80 mpg for 5 or 6 passenger sedans at supposedly a low cost premium over a "regular" car... and then... nothing. None of the cars were mass produced and everybody ran out and bought new Silverados instead.

[Frank Lee]

VW sold diesels in '77: Volkswagen tracks down the oldest Rabbit diesel in America

Moody made his diesel conversion on a '79 Capri and publicized it in '79: Energy: Moody's Magic Machine - TIME

Make no mistake, I like the Moodymobile; it just wasn't revolutionary, ahead of it's time, or even particularly clever.

[user removed]

Combining gas and diesel engines could yield best of both worlds

When you eliminate throttle controls or fuel delivery controls and let the engine run at its best efficiency then you can get close to 60% thermal efficiency.

That is one of the key reasons I like the hydraulic hybrid. The engine is not the controlling factor in vehicle speed. The hydraulic accumulator allows this separation of function and acts like an energy damper, both for acceleration and regeneration.

The engine can now cycle on and off, running with no throttle control whatsoever. It either produces absolutely best bsfc, or it is not running. The cycle percentage depends only on sustained energy requirements as an average. Sitting in crawling traffic the cycle could be lower than 5% while 100% would be climbing a long steep grade. The only control mechanism is an on or off switch.

Another design that seems promising is the Chiron from INNAS.

How to find us

Look at their floating cup in wheel drives. This is a fixed displacement design with a transformer to control pressure. Fluid is constantly flowing through a fixed displacement motor. My design eliminates the transformer and controls the displacement directly by changing the stroke of the pistons, It is also a rotary instead of axial configuration.

In the EPA documents from 2006 they were looking for a "clean sheet of paper" design for a drive motor to get regeneration efficiency (something Moody never even considered) beyond 80%.Their major issue was using a bent axis pump-motor connected to the differential at prop shaft speed, where the efficiency of a hydraulic motor is poor compared to driving the wheel directly at less than 30% of the RPM of a prop shaft speed drive.

regards
Mech

[user removed]

Non-electric Ford F-150 hydraulic hybrid could get 40 mpg

Maybe not wasted after all Frank. How about that full sized truck getting 40 MPG. Imagine what a Corolla sized vehicle would do.

regards
Mech

[ron]

I seem to remember the hydraulic automobile proposal back in the 80s. the biggest drawback was the cost of components and weight. but as for being efficient only electrical can best it. wait until the battery is perfected(if ever)