Return of the Honda Civic HF (41 mpg hwy - same hwy mpg as last year's Civic hybrid)

[Arragonis]

Does this mean the Civic Hybrid is more or less dead ?

[user removed]

Honda started on the wrong path in the mid 90s after the old man died. The GM philosophy they adopted worked for a while but I hope they understand that riding on their reputation today is a losers game.

Changing transmission overall drive ratios is beyond simple when all you have to do is change the gear sets on the assembly line.

I think it is safe to predict that they will offer better overall drive ratios and they will offer a manual transmission. Maybe they will even reverse their misdirection to the point where they offer a basic high mileage no frills vehicle maximized for economy.

It's simple. if they refuse to change their philosophy, at least for the North American market, they risk becoming irrelevant. The Koreans are going to kick their behinds back across the Pacific ocean if they are stupid enough to maintain their present course.

regards
Mech

[PaleMelanesian]

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

Honda started on the wrong path in the mid 90s after the old man died. The GM philosophy they adopted worked for a while but I hope they understand that riding on their reputation today is a losers game.

Changing transmission overall drive ratios is beyond simple when all you have to do is change the gear sets on the assembly line.

I think it is safe to predict that they will offer better overall drive ratios and they will offer a manual transmission. Maybe they will even reverse their misdirection to the point where they offer a basic high mileage no frills vehicle maximized for economy.

It's simple. if they refuse to change their philosophy, at least for the North American market, they risk becoming irrelevant. The Koreans are going to kick their behinds back across the Pacific ocean if they are stupid enough to maintain their present course.

regards
Mech

They've already lost this one-time fan. There are two H-cars in my driveway. That's likely to stay true, but the next one will have a slanted H with Korean flavor to it.

[cfg83]

Arragonis -

Originally Posted by Arragonis

Does this mean the Civic Hybrid is more or less dead ?

I don't think so. It's also featured at the same URL.

CarloSW2

[TomO]

Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian

They've already lost this one-time fan. There are two H-cars in my driveway. That's likely to stay true, but the next one will have a slanted H with Korean flavor to it.

I know where you're coming from.

I just recently rid my household of a 2003 Honda Odyssey due to horrible transmission engineering (read: expensive failure point that was failing) in favor of the slanted "H" with a lifetime drive train warranty as well as touting 36mpg highway in a larger car than my VX.

[SentraSE-R]

Honda priced itself out of the compact budget class a long time ago, IMO. When I buy my next car, it's likely to be a Hyundai Elantra or Accent, rather than a Civic. Every Elantra will have a 40 mpg EPA hwy estimate, while only the AT Civic HF will attain 41 mpg. All the Elantras and Accents will have direct injection. Honda bloated, stood still, and blinked. Hyundai & Ford passed it so fast, Honda doesn't realize yet it's out of the game.

[some_other_dave]

Originally Posted by cfg83

The 2012 Civic HF beats the 2005 Civic HF in "New EPA MPG".

Interesting... I didn't realize there had been a Civic HF before. A quick Google search doesn't turn up any reference to a 2005 HF, either.

Now, the 1998 CRX HF was rated at 49 MPG on the highway in the NEW ratings. So they've still got a ways to go.

Vehicle Table

-soD

[cfg83]

some_other_dave -

EDIT - SORRY, I MEANT TO SAY Civic HX, not HF.

Originally Posted by some_other_dave

Interesting... I didn't realize there had been a Civic HF before. A quick Google search doesn't turn up any reference to a 2005 HF, either.

Now, the 1998 CRX HF was rated at 49 MPG on the highway in the NEW ratings. So they've still got a ways to go.

Vehicle Table

-soD

You mean the 1988 CRX HF. That's a two-seater from a different era (I had a 1989 CRX DX), so I wouldn't compare the two.

You can find the HX indirectly here :



They never seemed to emphasize the HX as a model. I used to "build my own" on the Honda website to see how much it would cost. They eliminated it when they introduced the Civic Hybrid (boo!).

CarloSW2

[user removed]

This post (mine) is not a defense of Honda, or a criticism of Hyundai, since I own neither, you could assume it is somewhat objective.

I love to see the innovation in the new Hyundai models. It certainly makes Honda and Toyota look like they lost their way when it comes to incorporating leading edge technology into their new designs.

Give Hyundai as well as Ford kudos for pushing the envelope.

On the other side of the coin Honda and Toyota have proven technology, reliability, and resale value, as well as a reputation, that is clearly evident in the resale value of their used models in the 7-12 year age range. Compared to them Hyundai is practically a give away car at that age in the used market.

Once your 10-100 warranty is no longer effective the value of the Hyundai plummets, while Hondas and Toyotas hold their value much better, which offsets their higher initial purchase prices.

The question is, does DI, and higher compression ratios, as well as other innovations, pass the test of time, when you add the potential issues of long term EGR deterioration, or the old issues of direct injection and potential spray pattern problems with injectors that are subject to the extreme environment of in cylinder fuel delivery.

Only time will tell if the normal operational cycles over the years will show that there could be some catastrophic flaws in all of the new innovation, examples of which abound if you have been exposed to auto technology over many decades.

regards
Mech

[Ryland]

Not to nit pick, but people seem a little confused over labeling and because of that are not finding past vehicles for comparison and historical reference.
The Civic HF is a new, not yet produced car, the earliest high gas mileage Honda Civic was the two door hatch back Civic FE (1980-1983) with a 1.3L engine.
1984 it was was a new body style for the Civic along with the introduction of the CRX, for that single year you could get a 1.3L engine and a transmission geared for high mileage in either the body of the 5 seat civic hatch back or the 2 seat CRX, EPA MPG numbers are hard to peg down for these cars but I've seen claims as high as 58mpg.
1985-1991 the Civic-CRX (sub model of the civic, just like the Del Sol is the Civic-Del Sol) was built with an HF option, this was only available in the CRX's 2 door, 2 seat body style.
1992 when the CRX line was dropped is when the Civic VX hatch back came in.
1996 Honda's highest gas mileage car changed to a non hatch back for the first time ever as the two door Civic HX coupe, so from 1996 to 2005 the HX live with a slight over lap with the Civic Hybrid that started being offered in 2003.
In my mind it would be logical for Honda to do something along the lines of offering the Hybrid as a fully loaded high end car and the Civic HF as a basic no frills car, I think that doing this would bring back alot of their lost customers who are sick of fancy automated expensive cars.