Return of the Honda Civic HF (41 mpg hwy - same hwy mpg as last year's Civic hybrid)

[cfg83]

Ryland -

Thanks for the corrections. I was getting my HF's and HX's mixed up.

I see the Honda MPG lineage as this :

Honda CVCC -> Civic
Civic FE
CRX HF
Civic VX
Civic HX
Civic Hybrids
Civic HF

CarloSW2

[wdb]

Mayhaps you are looking at the wrong Honda? My Fit is neither fancy nor automated. It's a very basic piece of transportation, especially in these days of myriad federal mandates. It even has scads of space under the hood, just like cars used to have.

[SentraSE-R]

Honda's reliability reputation is largely undeserved, IMO. Just a snapshot into that 7-1/2 to 12 year range that Mech mentioned, and here's what we see at recallowl.com:
2002 Honda Civic - 18 recalls. Two for airbags, 13 for exterior lighting, 1 for glass, 1 for fuel system, 1 for engine cooling.
2002 Hyundai Elantra - 6 recalls. Two for brakes, 2 for fuel system, 1 for air bags, 1 for suspension.
2002 Toyota Corolla - 5 recalls. Four for exterior lighting, 1 for suspension.

And that doesn't touch on the Civic class action lawsuits for hybrid battery failure, premature tire tread wear, automatic transmission failures, and defective brake systems. Hyundai has two Elantra class action lawsuits it's facing, for airbags and horsepower. Toyota has a few that include the Corolla related to Throttlegate & perceived lower resale value. Once again, Honda actually trails its competitors.

So, the only sensible thing to do is buy a Corolla, sell it when it's nearly worn out, and spend your money on a used newer model Hyundai . Honda doesn't come into the picture for either quality or value.

[basjoos]

Originally Posted by wdb

Mayhaps you are looking at the wrong Honda? My Fit is neither fancy nor automated. It's a very basic piece of transportation, especially in these days of myriad federal mandates. It even has scads of space under the hood, just like cars used to have.

The Fit isn't fancy or automated, but it has short gearing, so it isn't the mileage champ that the older simple Hondas were. In their small car line, Honda doesn't sell an inexpensive high mpg car anymore, just inexpensive modest mpg cars and expensive high mpg hybrids.

[bluejoey]

Originally Posted by basjoos

The Fit isn't fancy or automated, but it has short gearing, so it isn't the mileage champ that the older simple Hondas were. In their small car line, Honda doesn't sell an inexpensive high mpg car anymore, just inexpensive modest mpg cars and expensive high mpg hybrids.

Completely true. The Civic ballooned into a compact car over the years and nothing was left to take its place until the Fit, which is just another boxy cube car (e.g., xB, Cube, Soul, Vibe, Matrix). The fact that there are no subcompacts made by *any* manufacturer today that can match the mpg you could pick up from a fifth gen Civic from the 90s (39/50) is a stark indication of how bad things have gotten.

[cfg83]

Hello -

The Fit/Jazz isn't what *we* want, but the rest of the world is happy with it :

Honda Worldwide | October 6, 2010 "Cumulative Sales of Honda Fit Reach 1.5 Million Units in Japan, 3.5 Million Units Worldwide"

TOKYO, Japan, October 6, 2010 - Honda Motor Co., Ltd. announced that Japanese market cumulative sales of the Honda Fit*1 surpassed the 1.5 million-unit mark at the end of September 2010, since the introduction of the first-generation model in June 2001.

Globally, cumulative sales of the Fit model also surpassed the 3.5 million-unit mark at the end of July 2010.

The Fit is sold to customers in approximately 115 countries*2 and is highly acclaimed for unique features that include a spacious cabin made possible by highly-efficient packaging technologies that leverage Honda's innovative center tank layout, flexible seating configurations and excellent fuel economy. On October 8, 2010, Honda will introduce the refreshed Fit model and the all-new Fit Hybrid in addition to the lineup in Japan.

*1 Also sold as Honda Jazz in some countries
*2 As of July 2010

CarloSW2

[Ryland]

Part of the reason that the Honda Fit sells so well in other countries is if I remember correctly you can get it with the 1.3L Vtec-e engine and get over 40mpg! but this is America! we aren't sure what we want but it if sounds good in a sound bite we'll buy it.

[cfg83]

Ryland -

Originally Posted by Ryland

Part of the reason that the Honda Fit sells so well in other countries is if I remember correctly you can get it with the 1.3L Vtec-e engine and get over 40mpg! but this is America! we aren't sure what we want but it if sounds good in a sound bite we'll buy it.

Yeah, even a 1.2 :

Honda Fit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Europe and Asia markets
L12A i-VTEC 1.2 L I4
L13A i-VTEC 1.3 L I4
L15A i-VTEC 1.5 L I4

North American market
L15A i-VTEC 1.5 L I4

But I think the other reason is that it's like a mini-minivan of practicality. It's a lotta bang for the buck.

CarloSW2

[SentraSE-R]

But the Fits the rest of the world gets aren't the same Fits we get. We get the 1.5 L 16 valve VTEC engine for power. They get 1.2L, 1.3L, and 1.5L DSI engines w/8 valves and 2 sparkplugs/cylinder for economy.

I don't know whether the transmission gear ratios are different in European and JDM Fits v. American Fits, but it wouldn't surprise me if they are.

[some_other_dave]

Originally Posted by cfg83

You mean the 1988 CRX HF. That's a two-seater from a different era (I had a 1989 CRX DX), so I wouldn't compare the two.

Sorry, the 98 was a typo.

-soD