Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-19-2009, 12:54 PM   #21 (permalink)
Left Lane Ecodriver
 
RobertSmalls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 2,257

Prius C - '12 Toyota Prius C
Thanks: 79
Thanked 286 Times in 199 Posts
I used data gathered by MetroMPG on the Blackfly and the 06 Corolla to find the optimum speed to drive each car, based on the premise that saving gas is good, getting to your destination sooner is good, and depending on how much you value your time and your fuel, there is a correct balance. So I assigned a dollar value to time and to gas.

I pay something like $2/gal, but I feel obligated to save gas like it was much more expensive. I value it at $6/gal. Getting there sooner also matters to me, to the tune of about $12/hr.

I plotted the cost per mile for each of MetroMPG's data points, and I had Excel fit a parabola to the result. The optimum speed to drive, considering only time and fuel consumption, is the speed where the cost per mile is the lowest. For me, that would occur around 67mph in the Corolla, and around 62mph in the Blackfly.

However, suppose I was running late for work and I'd be willing to pay $.50 for each minute earlier I arrive, but I still care to conserve gas to the tune of $6/gal. Under these conditions, I'd drive the Blackfly at 68mph, or the Corolla at 78mph.

This is very much back-of-the-napkin. A better optimization problem, like the one that runs in my head whenever I'm behind the wheel, would take in to account that some speeds are not as safe as others (whether too slow or too fast), cars probably wear out faster at higher speeds, and that it's fun to post large MPG numbers. Also, these data only apply to steady-state cruising in economy cars on flat roads with the A/C off, in top gear.

Bottom line: drive faster to save time. Drive slower to save gas. For me, the balance appears to be around 65mph.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Vehicle Speed Optimization.png
Views:	90
Size:	14.7 KB
ID:	2587  
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 01-22-2009, 10:01 AM   #22 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,515

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.71 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 52.48 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,062
Thanked 6,959 Times in 3,603 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertSmalls View Post
Where can I get raw data for one of these cars in the high-speed runs?
I don't think the raw data is available. The chart came from here: Green Car Congress: Fuel Consumption at Higher Speeds
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 11:43 AM   #23 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post

I'm new here but is this graph saying at 70kph the vehicle gets 51.x9 MPG? And at 40kph it gets 57.2?

I own an 05 Corolla CE Automatic and it gets nowhere near these figures at those speeds... you stated you borrowed the vehicle so I would assume that means its stock (unmodified). I'm confused how you arrived at these MPG ratings, unless I'm just totally missing something here.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 11:54 AM   #24 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,515

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.71 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 52.48 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,062
Thanked 6,959 Times in 3,603 Posts
Hi Milkman - yes, the figures posted are correct and the car is unmodified.

But note the test conditions the readings came from, in post #9. FYI, you can't compare real world (round trip, cold start etc.) mileage to these figures. They're simply "constant speed" numbers for a warmed up car under pretty ideal conditions.

Have you done a similar test (level road, cruise control, no traffic etc) and come up with different numbers?
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2016, 08:23 AM   #25 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Seattle
Posts: 12

Red - '04 Toyota Matrix XR
90 day: 27.34 mpg (US)
Thanks: 11
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
This is fascinating to me. I have a 2004 Matrix XR, FWD, Automatic. I had assumed that my best fuel economy would come in my highest gear, after torque lock-up, at the lowest possible RPM--this equated to about 37 mph. Then, empirically (without a scan-gauge), I found that a slightly higher speed than the lowest possible RPM speed in this condition produced a better result--45 mph or so yielded better fuel economy. Your test results concur with my rough finding. What is astonishing about your result is that 24.9 mph--which must occur prior to torque lock-up--is an even better efficiency speed! Remarkable. Please tell me if I'm interpreting your results incorrectly. I know have 25 mph and 45 mph marked in my mind as my efficiency target speeds. Thanks for the work. Steve
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2016, 10:04 AM   #26 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,515

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.71 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 52.48 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,062
Thanked 6,959 Times in 3,603 Posts
Hi, Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manualhybrid View Post
empirically (without a scan-gauge), I found that a slightly higher speed than the lowest possible RPM speed in this condition produced a better result--45 mph or so yielded better fuel economy.
I wonder if what you saw is the difference between optimal (flat road, constant speed) testing conditions vs. "real world" driving where it sometimes makes more sense to cruise a bit faster than the lowest speed at which top gear/lockup engages just to avoid automatic downshifts on hills, slight acceleration, etc.

Quote:
24.9 mph--which must occur prior to torque lock-up--is an even better efficiency speed!
I've seen this in a few vehicles -- but only ones with automatic transmissions. Even though it isn't in top gear, the aero load is reduced enough at 40 km/h / 25 mph that it comes out ahead. If you could manually shift up to the next gear, the "dip" seen in the next 2 data points would disappear.

Darin
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2016, 05:47 PM   #27 (permalink)
Just cruisin’ along
 
jcp123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 1,183

Beater Echo - '00 Toyota Echo
90 day: 42.67 mpg (US)

Hondizzle - '97 Honda Civic DX
Team Honda
90 day: 46.55 mpg (US)

Shaggin Waggin - '14 Chrysler Town + Country
90 day: 22.56 mpg (US)
Thanks: 66
Thanked 200 Times in 170 Posts
Yup, I see that same phenomenon in my Echo, too.

I'm confused though, it sounds as though you were saying it shifted into 4th AND lockup at the same time? That doesn't sound right. Should hit 4th at around 30ish and lockup at 37-38mph.
__________________



'97 Honda Civic DX Coupe 5MT - dead 2/23
'00 Echo - dead 2/17
'14 Chrysler Town + Country - My DD, for now
'67 Mustang Convertible - gone 1/17
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2016, 11:02 AM   #28 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,515

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.71 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 52.48 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,062
Thanked 6,959 Times in 3,603 Posts
You're right. It didn't change to 4th and lockup at the same speed.
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2016, 10:00 PM   #29 (permalink)
Just cruisin’ along
 
jcp123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 1,183

Beater Echo - '00 Toyota Echo
90 day: 42.67 mpg (US)

Hondizzle - '97 Honda Civic DX
Team Honda
90 day: 46.55 mpg (US)

Shaggin Waggin - '14 Chrysler Town + Country
90 day: 22.56 mpg (US)
Thanks: 66
Thanked 200 Times in 170 Posts
Cool. Did some digging and the transmissions are nearly identical for my Echo and the Corolla, the difference being final drive. Both are of the U3xx family.

Corollas and Echos are remarkably similar in their FE performance, nod to toe Corolla for carrying extra weight and displacement. And both positively rock with stick. Neat stuff.

__________________



'97 Honda Civic DX Coupe 5MT - dead 2/23
'00 Echo - dead 2/17
'14 Chrysler Town + Country - My DD, for now
'67 Mustang Convertible - gone 1/17
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tested: vortex generators (AirTabs) on a Toyota Corolla MetroMPG Aerodynamics 77 01-29-2021 11:07 AM
How to get instant fuel consumption from Megasquirt TELVM Instrumentation 11 08-29-2011 02:47 PM
Review: 2008 Toyota Avalon Touring Edition (32.8 MPG) RH77 General Efficiency Discussion 2 09-04-2008 01:27 PM
Review: 2009 Toyota Corolla LE (37.9 MPG) RH77 General Efficiency Discussion 22 05-09-2008 04:55 PM
Win an EM Sticker: guess Dad's mileage (Toyota Corolla automatic). Ends Jan 13. MetroMPG Hypermiling / EcoDriver's Ed 51 02-07-2008 09:02 AM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com