01 Dodge 3500 4x4 dually challange!

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by dem45133

I can see these effects adding up... but all the way to 3x. Big doesn't matter on handling if your used to it... most of us that have them are... so why?

If I had to guess - and of course a guess is all it is - I'd say it's mostly design: high center of gravity, light on the rear, etc. Bet you'd find a lot of those fatalities were single vehicle rollovers. (It'd be interesting to know the rates for stock vs lifted/big tires, too.) Then I'd add in a helping of driver attitude, a lot of which is (again!) the mistaken belief that big equals safe.

If its 3x in these conditions for pickups... it must be even more for the little cars...

There you go again, letting feelings run ahead of the data. It doesn't have to be more for small cars, and probably isn't, as the difference in the pickup/car ratios between city & rural driving isn't anywhere near 3x. You also have to think about the crashes that didn't happen: e.g. the small car that didn't go off the road where a pickup would have, because it handles better.

[Frank Lee]

First snow of the season gives a prime example of driver mentality and safety as the ditches become filled with 4x4s that the "drivers" mistakenly thought would allow them to "drive" just as recklessly as they do the rest of the year.

[Diesel_Dave]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

If you had a Ford 7.3 I would agree with him, cummins tends to not be long term reliable

I hope you're referring to WMO durability and not general long term reliability. I'd like to see somebody with a Ford that's done this:
1.7 Million Miles in a Dodge Ram… You Betcha!
that Cummins owner has 1.7 million miles on his truck without an overhaul...and counting!

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Diesel_Dave

I hope you're referring to WMO durability and not general long term reliability. I'd like to see somebody with a Ford that's done this:
1.7 Million Miles in a Dodge Ram… You Betcha!
that Cummins owner has 1.7 million miles on his truck without an overhaul...and counting!

Fords will run on WMO85 that is well filtered with few problems, Cummins and Detroit generally will not.

[dem45133]

You also have to think about the crashes that didn't happen: e.g. the small car that didn't go off the road where a pickup would have, because it handles better.

Your giving the average driver (around here anyway) much more credit than they likely are capable of... honest to God!.

Still don't see the reasons for the 3x... neither did Wenzel and what-his-name.

I mean seat belts, air bags and anti-lock... all the standard safety items... and were not talking accidents were talking 3x fatalities... what causing them? It would interesting to see what the data said on the seat belt use.

I've had pickups as primary since about '83, but they all had toppers and generally some amount of stuff in them... so they were actually balanced little better and handled fairly well for what they were. Only 1 was 4x until 2009 when I bought the 1 ton that will never see snow BYW as they can't do snow with out salt anymore. When they were winter drivers they also carried at least 500 pounds 1/4 and 1/2 ton, 800 on the 3/4 just in front the the rear axle for winter road conditions... so in reality I did not have the light rear issue until this 1 ton. Its WAY to light on the rear for my tastes for wet roads, but until I get the tonneau cover on it I can't lock anything in it or keep it dry. Maybe that's part of it... the winter weight (that many many people do) coming forward in a crash??? Hummm.

Well were getting off topic again...... but before I go

First snow of the season gives a prime example of driver mentality and safety as the ditches become filled with 4x4s that the "drivers" mistakenly thought would allow them to "drive" just as recklessly as they do the rest of the year.

Come on Frank, give us a little credit... I see em too 4x and 2x... seem to forget everything is 4 wheel brake. Which is why sometimes I'd just go have coffee... let em either get home or in the ditch and then I'd go back to work (or to where ever) when they were done screwing around. There is no snow I can't run (providing its not deep enough to hang you up or its 20 ft deep like on US 20 in Nebraska that time...), but I set up my personals proper for it every winter. I also carry chains if it gets bad enough. 20 years of the Northwoods of WI will do that (well at least back when they still got real snow). Still set up the cars with special front WD snow tires all the way around. Works well. FYI... I still operate everything as if I'm 80k by default (and I got out truck in 1989), 3 semi lengths following distance at typical cruise, watching everything in a 1/8 mile radius 360 continuously. Watching to the rear almost as much as the front, never boxing in, always leaving outs even when pulling up behind someone at a light, never in center lanes etc etc.

BTW... on good dry conditions 4 lane interstate with limited traffic is 70 reckless in your mind? Or maybe your unfortunate enough to have to deal with suburbiaville rush hour (my condolences)... 90% of them ARE nuts or just untrained... spooked me several times when they are averaging 80-90mph bumper to bumper 6 lanes wide... and giving me the finger because I was trying to maintain a real following distance. (I95 near Phila, I25 S of Denver, hell Cincinnati for that matter). You remind me of my friend John... of 35 years now... if he ever gets over 55 mph... I believe he believes he'll go into warp mode and disappear or something. Scares him for some reason I guess...could be his eyes though... bad tunnel vision but he wont admit it. If its a limitation for him what he is doing is just fine.

Good night gentleman...

Next topic... aero under the 1 ton... I'm planning a hard roll-up for a bed cover.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by dem45133

Your giving the average driver (around here anyway) much more credit than they likely are capable of... honest to God!.

No, I think I'm giving them less credit. What I'm saying is that my guess is that most people are probably marginal drivers in a smaller car with a low center of gravity & good weight distribution. Put them in a pickup or SUV, which they try to drive exactly as they would a normal car, and that puts them over the line from barely adequate to not nearly good enough.

After all, there are reasons why your ordinary driver's license doesn't qualify you to drive semis.

Still don't see the reasons for the 3x... neither did Wenzel and what-his-name.

Nor can I do more than guess at the reasons, but that doesn't mean the 3X difference isn't real.

[dem45133]

I didn't say the data didn't show that... but the whys don't add. There's some common factors for the class there they didn't capture somehow. Maybe it is that they try to out drive their handling/cornering capabilities... but that's a really a driver error... your supposed to know that up front... but since typical training is abysmal at best they likely wouldn't until its too late.

[dem45133]

Well, last week I babied the livin &(*&^ out of the '94 3/4 ton... 14.79 mpg (60 on 4 lane 45-50 on the 2 lane, less on the hills, 1/100th throttle for acceleration.) For this commute and a v8 auto 6400 lb 3/4 (that one can not "neutral" and coast... at least I won't, transmissions are too costly) that's about the best she's going to get. I have gotten 16.5 on the level interstate on a tank at 62 mph once (due to a 30 ft mast suspended lengthwise)... but that's not THESE roads! This week I went back to my normal... got 13.5 mpg running 70 on the 4 lane, 65 up the hill, and 60 (except some curves) on the 2 lane. 1.26 mpg better when baby babied... but damn hard on my nerves.

Next week I give the 3/4 Dodge a rest until next winter's salt. She turned 273,000 miles today. I paid $19,500 for it in 1995 with 15,000 miles on it (most expensive vehicle I ever bought). The heads and pan have never been off, FI system 100% original and never opened (but it and the combustion chambers were chemically cleaned on several occasions, I calculated that over the last 17 years something like 2250 gallons have gone through each one of the injectors), the original ball joints weren't replaced until 230,000 (I have a trick for them... needle greased several times, until the rubber seal simply died), tie rod ends are original (but greased regular), steering sector original and has never been reset, (no appreciable slop) still only a quart of oil to 3000 miles... only on the first replacements on front rotors (although the could stand it again), rear drums original (I told you I'm not real brake dependent), rear end and ALL suspension even the bushings and shocks are original. All but the muffler itself is original on the exhaust system. Its only had 1 tune up at 125k...overdue due for a second... but you can't really tell. Even the drivers seat held up, no rips tears or wear through! Computer is original. AC system is original and has never been opened up and works fine. I may have had it charged once, but I'm not sure. ONLY parts its ever had other than (pads, shoes, light replacements and tires) is one water pump, one timing chain and sprockets, one radiator, one starter and one alternator, two in tank fuel pumps, only two serpentine belts and one transmission rebuild at 172,000 on the original. Only the transmission rebuild and the in-tank fuel pumps were performed by others, but I pulled it and re-installed the transmission. It has been THE lowest cost per mile vehicle I EVER owned, not counting fuel.

That kind of service and longevity is why I bought it and is going to be very very hard to beat in any vehicle, especially since she's also towed about a quarter of those miles (maybe even compared to the the 01 1 ton I'll never be able to buy fuel for that many miles now). She's also had her share of wide open throttle on occasion (but she's never been hot and almost never over 4500 rpm, I think only once did I take her to 5k... typically not over 3k). I will miss that longevity in something small to commute with. I know she has at least 50k in her yet... but at $5 or $6 a gallon? Still irritates me their greed stole that from me! I serviced her every 3000 and took care of her for a reason!

A friend of mine who works for Ford Motor Company in Engineering QC (setting up new plants)...said Dodge engineered the 1st newstyles (94 up) for 250,000 miles to try and steal part of Ford's thunder... I fully believe it and until Mexico messed up their transmissions in 96 they would have stole more. She also said that in today's (now) auto industry they all have the "engineering to failure" down pat... if a part is designed for 80k... it fails at 80001. She also stated that nothing is designed around 250000 except the trucks. I'd bet she's right and there is not much that's actually designed around 250,000 miles in small, that's affordable. If there really is I'd like to know about them. 150k designs do not impress me though some brag them up.

I'll start commuting with the 1 ton now that the roads were washed by the rains. Its a manual 6sp so will see where I can get it to on mpg without going crazy.


Later...

[Diesel_Dave]

Originally Posted by dem45133

Well, last week I babied the livin &(*&^ out of the '94 3/4 ton... 14.79 mpg (60 on 4 lane 45-50 on the 2 lane, less on the hills, 1/100th throttle for acceleration.)

Actually, you'll find that a reasonably heavy throttle under acceleration will give you better mileage, not worse. This is because engines are more efficient percentage-wise at higher loads. The key is to not accelerate unnecessarily. Acceleration itself is fine as long as 1) you keep your speed down, 2) your acceleration doesn't result in you having to use your brakes more down the road. Reasonably quick acceleration can actually be good. Look into the "pulse & glide" technique.

Most folks on the street think that the key to getting good fuel mileage is not using the skinny pedal. The truth is the key is not using the fat pedal.

[dem45133]

Wow!

I sure hope that never becomes normal! How many ways can one increase their risk and piss off every one and make it worse?

My commute; 18 miles 2 lane 55 mph mostly, but not 3000 feet of non curves or hills in the entire 18 miles and several 30 and 25 mph curves at the bottom of hills.... its bad enough that there is only 2 very short places to pass... so when you get behind grand pa doing 30... your maybe stuck there for 5 miles... and if some one is oncoming in one of the 2 passing stretches it might be 10 miles or 18 if oncoming at the second stretch... but the 75 - 80 mph idiots will pass not only grandpa even on non-passing maximum sight distance hills and curves that are marked no passing for a reason (but now they are punched hard and likely at 90 before yanking back... they are just plain crazy and kill several every year in head-ons or loss of control trying to avoid one and get back in their lane, or worse someone else loosing it trying to avoid them...)... they'll pass me or my wife while were doing 60 or 62. Now they are going to come behind you in your glide and really get really pissed when they can't pass , you cycle through your acceleration, and glide down again. Likely a good way to get shot around here. And you wonder why I like weighing 7000 lbs!!! Hell I don't need at 1 ton.. I need Abram's tank to be safe around here! Ohio does NOT know how to build a road... even a US highway. Partly because they are almost all old narrow right-of-ways and no shoulders to speak of.

Ok the next portion... 24 miles of good open marginal trafficked 4 lane. While it would be much safer to do it here vs my 2 lane... you'll constantly be passing someone at the peak of you acceleration, and then they'd be passing you during the glide. Its a 70 mph average for everyone...including big trucks... regardless what the speed sign says (unless your directly behind a trooper) After a few dozen time of this they're going to be giving you the finger or worse. What if you at the bottom of your glide directly in front of a semi, who doing 40 mph faster but cant move over because of another vehicle next to him. Could you see the chaos if they all were trying to do this... ???

Except maybe out west in the open plain 2 lanes... I do not see this as a viable option... Even the western main line E/W interstates, like 10,20,40,70,80,90 and 94 and and some of their NS counterparts like 35 would have too much traffic to do this even remotely safely.

I read through those hypermileing tips... a lot of add to safety issues in many ways.... geez. I've driven way to many miles and have seen way too many things to even think of some of them. One never minimizes the the safety margins... you ALWAYS maximize them. I know that some of (very well a good percent of the serious ones) will be rude and/or reduce their safety margin for sake of "I'm not breaking my average now... I'm so close to a record" which then will take precedence... I'll guarantee it!.