Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-30-2023, 11:16 PM   #41 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 28,715
Thanks: 8,150
Thanked 8,929 Times in 7,372 Posts
Consider the Cybertruck. Small stagnation point flanked by chamfers.

__________________
.
.
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

____________________
.
.
Three conspiracy theorists walk into a bar --You can't say that is a coincidence.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
JacobLeSann (10-31-2023)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-31-2023, 12:38 AM   #42 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: The Pas, Manitoba
Posts: 319
Thanks: 427
Thanked 145 Times in 112 Posts


I think this could be an ever better consideration. At least, in terms of a nice looking upper grille block.

My bumper is pretty beat, so I wonder what’s worth doing. All the same: The less time I spend on this car, the more time I can spend on my other ones.

Hmmm…
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1CD6971F-9118-4D37-B51A-5E5E22297C52.jpg
Views:	88
Size:	31.0 KB
ID:	34287  
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JacobLeSann For This Useful Post:
freebeard (10-31-2023)
Old 10-31-2023, 09:33 PM   #43 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: The Pas, Manitoba
Posts: 319
Thanks: 427
Thanked 145 Times in 112 Posts
Duct Prototype



Front of the car with the bumper removed. The radiator doesn’t seem to get much high pressure air even when stock. You can notice the pattern on the radiator flutes showing where it picks up airflow.



I stitched up my bumper nice and good, with a few holes that need patching. I cut the lower grille out and made a duct out of coroplast to fit inside of it.



To fit around the bumper properly, I went with a curve instead of a straight angle. It expands in height while shrinking in width. The curve might be too steep.



I don’t think there’s gonna be any chance of me making proper ducting at the rear of the radiator. This engine bay is just too packed.


Will update as I make progress. Going front to back.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	9F671583-10FE-47CB-8251-1DF602312EE9.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	72.6 KB
ID:	34293   Click image for larger version

Name:	0379353A-B134-4854-A5B0-78BE297304A2.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	71.8 KB
ID:	34294   Click image for larger version

Name:	C29A4428-6C3A-431F-BB17-FD263CD623A5.jpg
Views:	78
Size:	58.0 KB
ID:	34295   Click image for larger version

Name:	4324A0C5-E3F1-4363-B487-94EE05629E7E.jpg
Views:	83
Size:	65.5 KB
ID:	34296  
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2023, 11:56 PM   #44 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Phase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: oregon
Posts: 1,121

Black Bullet - '19 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid Blue
Thanks: 1
Thanked 592 Times in 470 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobLeSann View Post


Here’s the inside of the original front bumper. The bottom edge connects the radiator support, so you can see that there’s decent length to design a bit of duct work. The upper grille is rather high, and could be moved lower or fully blocked off.



Here’s me thinking out loud. Lengthening the front of the car could help balance out the look of a longer rear end. It could reduce pressure at the front of the car. It could allow for longer ductwork; in turn allowing for an even smaller grille opening.

Emphasis on *could*. It could also put more air over the windshield, or create excess downforce up front. Have to see what happens for myself.
you actually want the front of the front undertray area to be slightly sloped and curved. creates better flow attachment underneath and increases downforce and lowers drag
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Phase For This Useful Post:
JacobLeSann (11-01-2023)
Old 11-01-2023, 05:53 PM   #45 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: The Pas, Manitoba
Posts: 319
Thanks: 427
Thanked 145 Times in 112 Posts
Thank you, noted. I know Julian Edgar describes a “step” in the front-most portion of the undertray for reducing lift.

The underside of my front bumper is pretty decent and I may just build on that. Most of the mounting locations are there and it should be able to just fit up on to the car. It’s got a flat area with a step.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2023, 07:05 PM   #46 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Phase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: oregon
Posts: 1,121

Black Bullet - '19 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid Blue
Thanks: 1
Thanked 592 Times in 470 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobLeSann View Post
Thank you, noted. I know Julian Edgar describes a “step” in the front-most portion of the undertray for reducing lift.

The underside of my front bumper is pretty decent and I may just build on that. Most of the mounting locations are there and it should be able to just fit up on to the car. It’s got a flat area with a step.
a really good example is the lightyear zero car. look at its front bumper

think of it as a '' reverse diffuser''

tesla is known for its '' skateboard'' design. so curved front and curved back like a skateboard
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Phase For This Useful Post:
JacobLeSann (11-03-2023)
Old 11-02-2023, 11:31 AM   #47 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,314
Thanks: 24,440
Thanked 7,386 Times in 4,783 Posts
'sharp inlet opening'

https://ecomodder.com/forum/member-a...speed-aero.jpgThat sharp inlet of the coroplast is introducing a vena contracta entry loss, knocking the flow efficiency from 98%, down to 74%.
You need to provide a bell-mouth entry radius, all the way around to get rid of it.
If you'll look closely at Spindletop's fascia, you'll notice that the 1963,Walter Korff, NASCAR inlet, is radiused like a velocity stack on a Ford GT 40's 427.
You'll need something similar.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	member-aerohead-albums-other+vehicles+1-picture156-1990-itworks-crx-undergoes-serialized-high-sp.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	39.4 KB
ID:	34297  
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/

Last edited by aerohead; 11-02-2023 at 11:38 AM.. Reason: add data and image
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
freebeard (11-02-2023), JacobLeSann (11-03-2023)
Old 11-02-2023, 12:20 PM   #48 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,314
Thanks: 24,440
Thanked 7,386 Times in 4,783 Posts
'AVA G'o'ttingen profiles'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsko View Post
Julian Edgar favored god awful gottengen profiles around his A pillar edges, but i think they were a radius increase instead of an intentional drag reduction.
Julian's a fan of the 1937 Schl'o'rwagen ( so am I ), and it was based on the leading edge of the G'o'ttingen 571 profile, and aft-body of the G'o'ttingen 570 profile.
His use on A-pillars may be an homage to to Ludwig Prandtl, Schl'o'r, and the other gentleman who created the car.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The notion of:
Turning vanes
Guiding vanes
Annular airfoils
Auxiliary airfoils
Large Eddy Break Up ( LEBU ) devices have been explored by:
Frey, Townsend, Fl'u'gl, and NACA/NASA
between 1930, and the 1980s.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They were primarily intended only for 2-D flow, however, use on busses were also explored.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only the NACA, radial engine cowl was adopted for commercial application, and are still flying today.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as busses, it's not the 1930s, and on the Greyhound Bus I rode home from Arkansas this year, the nose drag constituted only 5.8% of overall drag, with surface friction at 21.5%, and 72.6% base drag.
As Freeman Thomas, of Audi & Ford Motor Company has said 'Aero is more about the rear of the car than the front.'
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
JacobLeSann (11-03-2023)
Old 11-03-2023, 09:41 PM   #49 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: The Pas, Manitoba
Posts: 319
Thanks: 427
Thanked 145 Times in 112 Posts
aerohead, I’m well aware of the sharp edges, just want a rough test to see what will happen should I stick a duct in there. The final version will indeed have a bell mouth and will have rounded inner corners.

I do wonder if having no “grille” in the front bumper will lead the a buildup of crud and rocks on the radiator. Lots of bugs and rocks here. Lots.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JacobLeSann For This Useful Post:
aerohead (11-06-2023)
Old 11-06-2023, 12:37 PM   #50 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 16,314
Thanks: 24,440
Thanked 7,386 Times in 4,783 Posts
'bugs'

I don't know about pebbles, but the bugs should collide and adhere to the inner duct, rising towards the radiator up above.
Some racers will place 1/4-inch hardware cloth in the opening to protect against rubber 'marbles' and other foreign objects kicked up by cars in front of them, making it to the heat-exchanger.
Errant plastic trash bags and palletized cargo wrap laying in the roadway on windy days probably poses the greatest risk to a cooling system.
A good reason for temperature gauges.

__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
freebeard (11-06-2023), JacobLeSann (11-06-2023)
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com