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Old 01-20-2011, 05:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Libby - '02 Jeep Liberty sport
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21.8mpg Jeep Lib and trailer!

21.8mpg's on the jeep with the trailer attached drafting the big truck. Best recorded so far!

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Old 01-21-2011, 11:56 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Wow! That beats the best I've managed without the trailer. I'm probably going to end up renting a 6x12 Uhaul trailer to get my stuff home at the end of the year. I expect 12 - 14 mpg at 60mph (trip is too long to drive slower) depending on wind, etc. The trucks usually run too fast to draft reasonably (and I won't draft with a trailer) on this run, and there aren't that many to start with.
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Old 01-21-2011, 03:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm keeping back to the count of (1 thousand one, 1 thousand two) so it's still a considerable distance away. I figure if he slams on his breaks, I'll beat him to the stop. I keep mentally alert and don't take my eyes of that rig other than quick moments for the mirrors. No GPSing, switching CD's, a little scanguaging though. If he blows a tire and I get debris coming my way then I'll deal with it, I think we all run that risk anyway when were on these big 3-4 lane highways so I might as well get something out of it. Usually I'll pick the truck that doing about 105Km so that I can keep in my 4 gear. My trailer is a small cargo 4x6. I can't wait to get both the vehicle and trailer modded out to see what I can get then.
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Old 01-22-2011, 02:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morpheous71 View Post
I'm keeping back to the count of (1 thousand one, 1 thousand two) so it's still a considerable distance away.
Have you found any positive drafting effects at that 2s distance ?

Your combination is a lot worse on aero than a passenger car, so it might be easier to grab some advantage, but still.

When I tried drafting behind a bus or truck (rig), I had to get a lot closer to see any serious benefit - like 0.5 s - which is far too close for comfort to me.
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I saw 19 mpg on two separate round trips with the biggest U-Haul enclosed trailer. Was grossing 13,000-lbs at 58 mph on US and Interstate hwys also traversing Houston four times. High heat, but medium traffic for the most part.

It was worthwhile to make U-Haul go over the trailer with me: tire pressure, wheel stud torque, proper surge brake operation. I also loaded and then reloaded trailer partially to get the best trailer tongue weight. These are very well-designed trailers.

What did you have behind the Liberty? Any other details? Interstate hwy, speeds, weather, terrain, traffic density?

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Old 01-23-2011, 03:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I have found drafting definitely helps at 100 - 120 feet back, even in the Jeep with no trailer. It's enough to feel it in how much gas pedal you need to keep speed.
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
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slow mover -
95-105km flucuating with the truck
3 lane highway, smooth well paved, heavy traffic (not back to back though)
mostly flat with long hills, nothing very high (hope that makes sense)
-8 temps

-16 temps today, without trailer, averaged 18.4, i think my cold start-ups are really affecting the overall averages, it seems to really take awhile for the mpg's to recover, I'll be buying a circulation heater this week and I gotta get that O2 sensor replaced. So it should be interesting what those two things will do to the averages. I'm also pulling the mirrors in the next few days (if it's legal), I am getting the feeling this will help abit, those mirrors sure are bulky, bought some convex style ones to replace them with. Anyone know of any mirror install posts that I could get some ideas from???
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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comp- yeah you can almost feel a spot where the turbulence is real strong and then you slip on through it and things get smooth, not sure if cars experience this but it's definitely their in the jeep.
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Old 01-24-2011, 03:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks for the conditions report. Except for temps it's easy to "see".

Any scale readings of truck with and w/o trailer (and trailer alone)?

Hitch rigging changes can be effective when/if front axle weight is lightened -- handling/braking; more or "wrong" effort increased, not to mention wear & tear -- trailer "follow" is bettered (they all move around -- incipient sway -- but this can be lessened).

I'd not change the mirrors unless an aftermarket set can be procured that betters the OEM set. There's simply too much necessary information given by mirrors for a tow vehicle. This is worse than tying ones hands behind ones back to run a race.

Instead I'd quantify and chase after trailer loading, hitch rigging effects on both vehicles, as well as alignment and brake + bearing drag on both vehicles. Anything to reduce lane wander and lessen the effects of road, traffic & weather on the combined load.

Think of this as the number of steering corrections needed per ten miles. Percentage reduction due to improved vehicle mechanics/dynamics is significant (not to mention "safer").

As to drafting big trucks I speak from experience: Can the driver see you from both outside mirrors? (Are you far enough back to be able to see both side mirrors on the tractor?). If not, you have encroached into his AO. As I tried to say above, the rearview mirrors are a predictor of the future. If you remain in a spot where you cannot be seen from both sides then you are hampering his ability to make changes necessary both on what is ahead and behind him. Your desire for FE doesn't trump his need for safe operations as he is far more limited in what he can do -- actively -- to avoid problems.

As a matter of practice, and especially with a trailer in tow, the No-Zone areas are those where one need always be on the throttle -- no coasting/gliding -- with never less than a 7 mph overtaking speed (I would prefer 10+). When I am being passed by big trucks I often cancel cruise control and shed speed quickly so as to move the big truck on past that much faster. And I am back on the throttle to maintain positive forward momentum.At this point I am watching the mirrors carefully. And I am not "yielding" ROW by moving over to the right of my lane. I wish for the big truck -- or anyone passing -- to accept their responsibility of passing safely. The burden is on them. I reserve my full lane width to use as I best see fit. You may notice that if you move towards the outside, that they will move towards -- if not into -- your lane.

One can choose to move over at the last moment when it is "evident" that the passing vehicle has chosen (conciously or unconciously) the "line" he will use to travel past you. In fact I often use as a matter of traffic management the tactic of moving towards our shared lane stripe to cause them to move that much farther over . . and then move back across the "center" of my lane to maximize distance. One must be a defensive driver, granted, but a bit of offense is the best defense judiciously applied.

Walter A. Johnson, who had made government-funded studies of the wind forces from tractor-trailers and their effects on other vehicles on the highway, qualified as an expert witness in the field of automobile and tractor-trailer aerodynamics. Johnson testified about the effect of such wind forces upon a vehicle being passed by a tractor-trailer.

According to Johnson, the front of a tractor-trailer pushes the air out of its way as it proceeds down the highway, creating a "bulging out of the wind [which] is referred to as a bow wave. It is much the same as a bow wave of a boat going through the water." At the aft, or rear end, of the tractor-trailer, the air is sucked back in behind the vehicle. As the bow wave progresses along the side of the overtaken vehicle, the wave's force pushes on those parts of the overtaken vehicle closest to that force, and as the rear end of the tractor-trailer passes the other vehicle, the force of the suction pulls on the parts of the overtaken vehicle closest to its force. Johnson testified that the bow wave and suction forces grow disproportionately at higher speeds and closer proximities between the vehicles.

Wrongful Death Court Case Citation

And, when passing big trucks, do not change back into that lane without at least 50-yards of space (where at all possible). Same with cancelling CC whenever passing.

The single FE advantage of trailing big trucks is not in drafting, but in "causing" other traffic to flow around you both. The sheeple are horrified at any idea of being hampered in speed, so the choice of the correct position behind a big truck while on the highway has the benefit of working their irrationality to your benefit.

On the other hand (isn't there always) you sacrifice the view ahead to what the truck driver makes of it. You'll have no warning about far too many obstacles, potential and otherwise.

The single time I tend to choose trailing big trucks is in moving into and out of large metro areas. Not across or through. The mouth-breathers are late to slow down into heavier metro traffic, and all too eager to accelerate out of the other side. Distances are collapsed, thus.

(And don't stay in-between them, either. This is one reason I still use CB to communicate with them that I wish them to move around me, and that I will make it easy for them to do so [easy being the least fuel burn for them, and, for me as I can predict both]). Just because you're behind one or two and several others are a good ways back in that lane: nope, you're stuck between them. The following truck driver would likely close the gap were you not in the way.

Thus I might make choices you might not, while towing. But neither of us is well-advised to do so in any number of instances.

It's simply better to pay more attention to trailer loading, tow vehicle attitude, rolling & aero resistance, plus increasing or maintaining -- not decreasing -- visual inputs and distances. Bad practice in a solo car is terrible practice in a tow vehicle.

.


Last edited by slowmover; 01-24-2011 at 04:14 PM..
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