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Old 10-20-2016, 10:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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4x4 / offroading

The antithesis of fuel efficiency?

The problem with offroading is that we need more power, more durability and more everything and fuel tends to come last.

However, I noticed a few good things:

1) Raise a ride height and you don't have to lose mpg

2) A belly pan adds some protection but also improves mpg a lot

3) Modern pickup trucks (Utes) have made large improvements in fuel efficiency

I also notice:

A) Most situations where you think you need a 4x4.... you actually just need clearance. Very few roads I've seen are fully muddy; most are just bumpy and proved no problem when I owned a van.

B) Pickups are a lot, lot more expensive than station wagons

C) I posed this kind of question to a subreddit, who pointed out to me the concept of a BattleWagon; modding up a station wagon (estate) to improve offroad capability.


So how's about:

- just raise a standard 2x4 estate car, fit a belly pan and maybe even carry a full spare set of wheels in the back that can be switched when getting to site.

The alternatives are to tow a quad or trail bike.

Does this seem like a plan, switching such varied wheels this way? How efficient are offroad tyres? How bad are low rolling resistant tyres over cobble roads such as the roads marked as highway that go along the coast of New Zealand...

Any experience trying to do something like this before?

I have a car I'm very happy with but once every 2-4 weeks I regret not having a 4x4 here.

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Old 10-21-2016, 08:16 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Jago,

I would suggest looking at expedtionportal.com to see some fairly stock vehicles getting out and exploring off the beaten path. I would also rethink your suggestion that offroading needs more power or more “everything.” This is a common misconception propagated by 1.)the money cannon builds you see online that are more suited for mall crawling than actual off-roading and 2.) the dedicated off-road trail rigs built specifically to be able to take extreme punishment. None of this is necessary for the careful attentive driver who is operating a vehicle off the beaten path. A rig that sees both on-road time and off-road time requires careful balance of any modification to not be terrible at one or the other. I use my 4x4 Tacoma for commuting, but it also sees significant off-road time around my property and the family farm. It will go anywhere I want it to go, and does so in a safe controlled manner. On my terrain where I live a 2wd car or truck would not go where I need it to go or do what I need it to do. That said, terrain varys significantly from place to place, so what works in the Sahara doesn’t necessarily work in the amazon. A raised car may work where you live for what you want to do, but around me that wouldn’t work without extensive modification.

1) The problem with simply raising the ride height is that the conventional way of accomplishing this (aka lift kit) raises up the body but not always the suspension or axles. Thus the rig looks taller, but actually has no more ground clearance than before. Also many strut lifts or key cranks on independent suspension that actually do raise the static clearance of the suspension don’t increase dynamic clearance so the vehicle can still bottom out in the same position. The best “lift” would be upsizing the tires in height as much as possible at the stock suspension heights. Try not to increase the width of the tires, just the height. If necessary trim any minor components to fit.

2) Agree as long as it is not excessively heavy. Weight is also the enemy of durability.

3) Trucks may be getting better fuel economy on your side of the pond, but over here they get worse and worse while the public is being told they are getting better. Over here they get bigger and bigger which offsets the improvements in engine efficiency and drag coefficient. That coupled with the general demise of the stick shift in newer vehicles over here is why my old wore out 1991 K2500 with the 350/NV4500 gets better highway fuel economy than my father in law’s 2012 GMC Sierra K1500 with the 5.3/6 speed automatic. (You can't even special order it with a manual.)

A) Over here, most stock pickups have plenty of clearance, but what you need is traction to make the vehicle go where you want it to go. On technical terrain if you start to slip or slide you will be in trouble, which is the advantage of a 4x4. I try to avoid mud at all costs, mud bogging is not the same as off-roading.

B) Agreed, especially when you are talking newer models. However many people chose to off-road with an older less expensive vehicle.

C) If you look around the internet, you can find several examples of off-road modified AWD Subarus. However most real world MPG numbers I have seen for those vehicles once they are lifted on oversize tires are roughly the same my 4x4 Tacoma (mid 20s).

If I was going to raise and modify a car, I would start with an AWD or similar. Before I did that though, I would take a hard look at an older 4x4 vehicle (such as a Landcrusier Parado) with the diesel engine, stick shift transmission, and factory lockers. That vehicle would be excellent off-road and very durable just as it was. Then you could modify the vehicle to get better fuel economy.

If you did modify the car, you would have to carefully watch your weight that you add. If you add to much weight, you will make the car less durable, and durability is key when you are out in the back woods.

I have done the whole tire switch thing, it gets old fast. I only switched them a few times, then I went to all terrains. Most aggressive looking mud style offroad tires are terrible for onroad traction and have a significant fuel economy penalty. I have gotten to love tires with lots of sipes for traction, and I have used Michelin LTX M/S2 tires offroad and they did just fine as long as you didn’t fill them up with mud. I am currently using Cooper AT-W which is a great all terrain tire and I have no traction complaints on or offroad, but it did come with a 1-2MPG penalty over the Michelins. I will probably go back to the M/S2 when these wear out. If you did do a real 4x4 vehicle especially with lockers, you will still have good offroad traction even with a milder tire choice.

The one thing that hasn’t been discussed which is critical to safe effective offroading is recovery gear. You need a way to lift (jack) dig (shovel) or pull (winch of come-along) yourself out of a pickle, and you need to practice using this equipment in a safe controlled test environment.
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Old 10-21-2016, 09:38 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Here is an idea for you, my Portable winch build, it would be great for a car, just remember to get a snatched block to double your mechanical advantage.
bumper build - Page 3 - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums
All the rednecks insisted I get a 10k or 12k winch but I don't plan on doing anything stupid enough to require a 10k winch like burying my truck up to the door handles in mud. Plus a decent 10 to 12k winch with cable weights between 80 and 100 pounds, plus that cradle is another 25lb so I'm guaranteed to be over 100lb with a big winch. My rig weighs right about 50 pounds.

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1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
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