'Al Gore's hockey stick is correct

[redneck]

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[freebeard]

B-b-b-ut... We've only got seven years left!

(Frankly, we'll be lucky to last that long)

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Pleez review the video at Permalink #7; wherein, at youtu.be/CqtZdnpfgIc?t=228 the Medieval Warm Period is discussed.

IIRC Ice Ages constitute 90% of Earth's [recent (post-fireball)] history.

Good vid, but doesn't substantially change anything I've been saying. If rapid warming is very bad for humanity (and it stands to reason rapid changes are bad by definition), then it doesn't matter whose fault it has been that temperatures have risen so quickly, only what to do next.

I throw out all extreme positions as not being part of a conversation about reality, but instead a personal delusion best left alone.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by redneck

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You do realize we DID things differently to stop 3 of the 4 things listed from continuing right?

1. Ozone layer was already gone over Siberia, Alaska and Finland and was restored by using different chemicals, took a good 30 years to fix itself

2. Acid rain was already occurring in the US alongside smog, if you lived in 1960’s California you would know the pain, catalytic converters and scrubbers solved this issue (Europe took longer to learn)

3. Oil wells across the US already were dry and depleted late 80’s through the 90’s, we developed technology to extraction more oil from dead wells but at much higher cost

4. The northern Icecap has been completely gone and not fully reformed several summers from 2014 onward, right now there is hot weather off by Antarctica for the first time. Polar bears population is down 50% from peak populations in the 60’s due to there not being an icecap.

If we don’t keep our eyes open we will instead live like animals not understanding why our population drops in half, woe is me why did this happen. Comparing population loss Cuba to North Korea is a good example of what happens if people do something to solve a problem versus what happens if you stick your head in your ass and have a third die off.

We have actually addressed disasters we caused in the past, the world isn’t designed for 10 billion people and keeping our eyes open and doing what we can in reason to prevent a fall off cliff scenario is prudent

We are lucky egg heads are interested in studying how the world works or we would still be ****ting in a pot and throwing it out the windows

[redneck]

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🤔

Do you realize it’s just like a meme ?

Or perhaps in other words, a generalization.

But seeing you asked.

1. Oil wells will be depleted.

Existing approved producing oil leases were depleted. Not oil itself. New leases in fertile oil areas were heavily restricted and or denied and still are.

2. Another Ice age.

I remember it well when they rolled that one out. I’m still waiting. On a long enough timeline it’ll happen. 😉

3. Acid rain will destroy all crops...

Well not according to the United States government. The National Acid Precipitation Assessment Program (NAPAP) report from 1987.

https://ebrary.net/184374/environmen...ion_combustion

Crop Effects

The NAPAP assessment indicated that there are no measurable consistent effects on crop yield from the direct effects of simulated acidic rain at ambient levels of acidity. This finding was based on yield measurements of grains, forage, vegetable, and fruit crops exposed to a range of simulated rain acidity levels in controlled exposure studies [1]. Continuing research efforts will examine whether stress agents such as drought or insect pests cause crops to be more sensitive to rainfall acidity.

Average ambient concentrations of sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides over most agricultural areas in the United States are not high enough or elevated frequently enough to affect crop production on a regional scale. However, crops may be affected locally in areas close to emission sources. Controlled studies also indicate that ambient levels of ozone in the United States are sufficient to reduce the yield of many crops.

4. The Ozone layer.

We have only been monitoring it since 1970’s. There is simply not enough data to make heads or tails on how it behaves let alone make a prediction. Chemistry shows that CFC’s have a negative impact. However, according to reports given to NASA in 1986-87, it may not be the only source.

https://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/facts/history.html

Between 1986 and 1987, several papers suggested possible mechanisms for the ozone hole, including chemical, dynamical (meteorological), and solar cycle influences.

And Yes I cherry-picked that sentence.

Not the science is settled (smoking gun) CFC’s. Because science is never settled.

You may have noticed I highlighted a line in #3.

Controlled studies also indicate that ambient levels of ozone in the United States are sufficient to reduce the yield of many crops.

I find it interesting that Ozone is missing in the upper atmosphere. However, it is more than abundant enough at ground level to cause trouble. Maybe, just maybe, we don’t understand it enough to make a responsible assessment.

5. Melting Ice caps.

Well, since the new ice age hasn’t begun yet. That means we still are coming out of the last one. (Warming)
Thus the ice will continue to melt. Don’t know what else can be said. 🤷


Polar bears...


https://arcticwwf.org/species/polar-bear/population/

A study of the study.

https://polarbearscience.com/2021/10...n-predictions/


Population

I suggest looking to the Georgia guide stones for clarification on this subject by the elites. Especially numero Uno...😳



They have plans for us...😐


Actually, there is plenty of room for people.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...new-york-city/

Nice and cozy... 😈


And finally.

Eggheads...


Remember.







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[oil pan 4]

Scientists observed the hole in the ozone as assumed it was due to man.
The fix was to ban CFCs but no one told that to the ozone layer. But the ozone layer just does what ever it wants.
The final solution was:
"Just don't talk about it and pretend like we fixed it".

Acid rain would never have been a problem if we stuck with nuclear power instead of a "safer coal" lol.

[freebeard]

Do you realize it’s just like a meme ?

Or perhaps in other words, a generalization.

"The word generalization in literature usually means covering too much territory too thinly to be persuasive, let alone convincing. In science, however, a generalization means a principle that has been found to hold true in every special case.... The principle of leverage is a scientific generalization." Buckminster Fuller

A meme IMHO is a melding of textual and graphic representation that acceleration understanding.


petapixel.com/.../charlie-chaplin-created-the-original-distracted-boyfriend-in-1922/

Originally Posted by WaPo

Urban's core assumption is that 10 humans can fit in a square meter. If you watch this video of nine journalists squeezing themselves into a square meter, you can see that while this would be cozy, it's definitely possible. This especially true given that about a quarter of the world's population is under 15.

Where do they poop?

[redneck]

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🤷





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[freebeard]

Originally Posted by redneck

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🤷
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Resolves as https://emojipedia.org/person-shrugging/

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by redneck

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��

Do you realize it’s just like a meme ?

Or perhaps in other words, a generalization.

But seeing you asked.

1. Oil wells will be depleted.

Existing approved producing oil leases were depleted. Not oil itself. New leases in fertile oil areas were heavily restricted and or denied and still are.

2. Another Ice age.

I remember it well when they rolled that one out. I’m still waiting. On a long enough timeline it’ll happen. ��

3. Acid rain will destroy all crops...

Well not according to the United States government. The National Acid Precipitation Assessment Program (NAPAP) report from 1987.

https://ebrary.net/184374/environmen...ion_combustion




4. The Ozone layer.

We have only been monitoring it since 1970’s. There is simply not enough data to make heads or tails on how it behaves let alone make a prediction. Chemistry shows that CFC’s have a negative impact. However, according to reports given to NASA in 1986-87, it may not be the only source.

https://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/facts/history.html

Between 1986 and 1987, several papers suggested possible mechanisms for the ozone hole, including chemical, dynamical (meteorological), and solar cycle influences.

And Yes I cherry-picked that sentence.

Not the science is settled (smoking gun) CFC’s. Because science is never settled.

You may have noticed I highlighted a line in #3.



I find it interesting that Ozone is missing in the upper atmosphere. However, it is more than abundant enough at ground level to cause trouble. Maybe, just maybe, we don’t understand it enough to make a responsible assessment.

5. Melting Ice caps.

Well, since the new ice age hasn’t begun yet. That means we still are coming out of the last one. (Warming)
Thus the ice will continue to melt. Don’t know what else can be said. ��


Polar bears...


https://arcticwwf.org/species/polar-bear/population/

A study of the study.

https://polarbearscience.com/2021/10...n-predictions/


Population

I suggest looking to the Georgia guide stones for clarification on this subject by the elites. Especially numero Uno...��



They have plans for us...��


Actually, there is plenty of room for people.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...new-york-city/

Nice and cozy... ��


And finally.

Eggheads...


Remember.







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The ice age comments were spread by people in Texas during the 1970’s snow storms that have repeated in 2014 and once again recently. Funny part is that the power plants and natural gas stayed flowing and functional back then because Texas actually had proper code in the day.
No scientist of merit at that point considered an Ice Age coming in the next hundred but a popular meteorologist spread it as did sensationalized opinion pieces in newspapers at the time.

You do realize there was a massive Alaskan land deed sale for oil rights during the 2016-2020 era right? State couldn’t get anyone to bid and most of the rights went unsold?
Oil leases during the dry era were because of wells becoming low producing or dry
Slow wells aren’t profitable when gas is under $2, just as fracking isn’t profitable under $2.
The lack of motivation to open leases had little to do with government and more to do with profit and government operating at the behest of industry.
This is similar to crash test “laws” being written with source control on a variety of components, you can fail the test without even being allowed to run tests.

Anyway
We partially agree on some points
But…
VOC is related to ground level ozone becoming dangerous

Our trouble is not with ground level ozone but the sheer emissions amounts of specific types of voc that can weaponize manmade and natural ozone sources.

And guess what emissions our regulators ignore from ground sources?

Likewise smog and acid rain are two peas in a pod, our successful efforts at reducing acid rain also reduce dangerous smog levels, can’t address one without affecting the other.

And neither of the above subjects have to do with light aerosols that tend to react with ozone that are easily motivated upward.

Do I believe emissions laws make sense? Nope but they are much better than what came before, beggers can’t be choosers