Anyone Live in an RV/Tiny House?

[slowmover]

The key to an RV and low living cost has a bit of depth. Ideally, the vehicles are paid for. And that they can be rebuilt to extend life of each out to twenty years or more. Easier on a pickup than on a conventional RV with the exception of Airstream.

The advantage of the latter is that it will live well past twenty five years AND can be pulled by a wider range of vehicles. The standard fulltime size is 28' or larger. Smaller has no benefit as to any form of economy. Can be pulled by minivan or V6 Charger or other. One can keep car duties to a lower number if one is careful.

Utilities will be higher, yes, as not enough thermal mass. Temps that stay below freezing start to be a problem. Etc. but for someone who values being able to pick up and move on, it is better than paying rent endlessly.

Much depends on family size and obligations. For children at home probably easiest to keep buying used every five-six years. Singles and couples have more options.

Owning land is the the thing. For those that don't, trailers, park trailers and mobile homes have advantages.

And a trailer can be the first home on a piece of land. If one has a genset, a good sized solar system, composting toilet already in RV, then some things can be moved to a permanent building after construction. Demo of an old Airstream is about $1200 in metal. And that can be used at the homesite for all kinds of uses. The frame rebuilt for some light hauling.

[IamIan]

Originally Posted by ME_Andy

But I was wondering if anybody has crunched the numbers about whether it's more cost-efficient than a house? Or maybe, a better investment?

It seems to me that an RV or trailer+truck wouldn't be worthwhile vs. a small house.

As they say .. the devil is in the details.

IT can swing both ways .. depending on the specific details.

Originally Posted by ME_Andy

So basically you halve your payment and your $ down, but you own a depriecating asset instead of an appreciating asset and you'll be paying rent forever?

The paying rent forever is not inherently part of a Tiny-House... There are people who put it on land that they own .. and thus they own it just as much as any regular land owner does ... it just cost them less initially up front .. and potentially cost them less to operate/maintain it.

Nor is (that kind of monthly fee forever) guaranteed to be avoided in conventional size houses .. I know people who pay $400+ / month to housing associations (for conventionally large houses) ... which financially $400+ / month is the same forever bill ... $400+/month forever is $400+/month forever no matter who is handing the bill to you or what they call that bill.

Both types of assets face the forces of depreciation .. a 100+ year old house (I just bought and moved into one) ... that has not been updated or well maintained is massively depreciated ... it might not even be legal to live in it anymore ... same thing with how well the asset was maintained and such .. if the asset has been well maintained , updated , etc ... it will appreciate in value (not depreciate) ... this is true for either type of house ... tiny , small , regular , large , etc ... If anything the tiny house has a inherent benefit due to it's size .. it requires less investment of time and money in order to maintain it , update it , etc.

Also ... only in cases where someone is relocating very often (several times every year) .. would buying a truck ever make itself financially worth investing in .. If in an apples to apples comparison you move the tiny house as often as you move the other house you are comparing too .. you rent the moving truck ... you don't buy and drive around a moving truck because you might want to use it when you eventually move from a house... you only buy a moving truck if you are using it soo frequently that it is cheaper to buy it than rent it.

Also .. another devil detail ... if you are the type that is constantly relocating .. on the road ... etc ... you won't make any financial progress paying for closing costs and such on regular houses if you are relocating all the time .. several times per year ... or if you spend enough days per year in hotels .. there reaches a break even point where the RV site rental fees are actually a net lower total cost.

but ... it all depends on the specific details... sometimes for some people it isn't about $ ... for others it is.

[freebeard]

I paid $900 for a 1962 model trailer, aluminum with fiberglass end caps, thirteen years ago. I don't even have a tow vehicle.

[ThePrudentNinja]

I've considered building a "tiny home" for a few years now. I'm cheap and hate spending money when I don't have to. I typically only use half of my house (and presently only heat and cool the room I spend the most time in but that's another story). The issues I've had is up front costs vs the return on investment.

With a tiny home you have the issues of material costs, labor, safety (anyone can just pull up and make off with your whole house!), laws, and so forth. An RV isn't any better and is actually a little worse due to how crappily they are made (is crappily even a word?!).

If you want a good long term tiny portable home, building one from scratch with enough knowledge is probably the best bet. If you can afford to spend about $20,000 to $30,000 you can build a decent off-grid portable tiny home that is well made and can last a lifetime with routine care.

Again, I'm cheap and can't fathom spending that much for such a tiny home (I only paid $1000 for my home and have 1200 square feet to play with). Another option if portability is not a big issue is building your own trailer home. A sort of middle ground between a tiny home and a mobile home. In my state, so long as I keep the width under 8.5ft and the length under another length (can't recall it right off), then I can tow it on public roads without the need of special permits and such. I've been designing an 8ft wide by 40ft long trailer home for a few months now. Once I have the rough idea and some drawings, I plan to send them to a structural engineer (and others) to make sure it's SAFE. I can always hire someone with a big truck to tow it between point A and point B and can "park it" in most mobile home parks/campgrounds/private land with permission. The issue with such is still laws. The government seems to want you to live in a huge house with high property taxes. They don't want you saving money because it will hurt the economy (and their budgets).

If you want to go real cheap, find some cheap land in some rural area that has few to no zoning laws and build a tiny home on it using salvaged materials where possible. You may be hundreds of miles from other people but might can get a decent home for under $20,000 and plenty of privacy.

[freebeard]

I see a 201506 join date. I don't know if you have read back through the forum archives, but 2 years ago around post #241 in the Buy a trailer (instead of a pickup truck) thread, there was discussion of shipping containers.

I've considered building a "tiny home" for a few years now. I'm cheap and hate spending money when I don't have to...

I've been designing an 8ft wide by 40ft long trailer home for a few months now. Once I have the rough idea and some drawings, I plan to send them to a structural engineer (and others) to make sure it's SAFE.

One of these things is not like the other. The Engineering could double the cost. Shipping containers can be stacked five high, before you start cutting doors and windows in them. There is a proud architectural tradition behind it.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ship...tainer+housing

Personally, I'd like two 20' containers placed side-by-side with a high fence connecting them at the back and a low fence with a gate at the front of the courtyard. Or a houseboat on SWATH pontoons.

Shipping containers all have solid Teak floors (just sand it down and oil it) and the containers for shipping food have stainless steel inner walls and a guttering system under the floor so you can hose down everything.

In my state, so long as I keep the width under 8.5ft and the length under another length (can't recall it right off), then I can tow it on public roads without the need of special permits and such.

In this state 35 feet and under is an R-license—hook up and go. Above 35 feet is an N-license. It requires a trip permit (and a designated landing spot?).

Edit: So what I'd do is get a 40' container (or swap body) and cut both ends off. Then at the front end, with pie-cuts in the floor and roof, the corrugated sides could be bent into a half-circle.

At the back two circular arcs (like a Gothic arch) to make a boattail. The cutting and rounding off would reduce the length from 40 to 35' (don't forget the hitch), making it eligible for an R-license. There could even be plan taper in the front and rear.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by ThePrudentNinja

The government seems to want you to live in a huge house with high property taxes. They don't want you saving money because it will hurt the economy (and their budgets).

Too much money wasted on taxes is actually the real harm to the economy. But you know, in a prosper economy with nearly-zero unemployment rates, how would politicians get something to use indefinitely as a campaign promise?

[freebeard]

Any promise of 'nearly-zero unemployment rates' is false going forward. Seriously.

First they came for the truck drivers and i didn't say anything because I wasn't a truck driver, then they came for the bricklayers and i didn't say anything because I wasn't a bricklayer...

[ThePrudentNinja]

Originally Posted by freebeard

I see a 201506 join date. I don't know if you have read back through the forum archives, but 2 years ago around post #241 in the Buy a trailer (instead of a pickup truck) thread, there was discussion of shipping containers.



One of these things is not like the other. The Engineering could double the cost. Shipping containers can be stacked five high, before you start cutting doors and windows in them. There is a proud architectural tradition behind it.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ship...tainer+housing

Personally, I'd like two 20' containers placed side-by-side with a high fence connecting them at the back and a low fence with a gate at the front of the courtyard. Or a houseboat on SWATH pontoons.

Shipping containers all have solid Teak floors (just sand it down and oil it) and the containers for shipping food have stainless steel inner walls and a guttering system under the floor so you can hose down everything.



In this state 35 feet and under is an R-license—hook up and go. Above 35 feet is an N-license. It requires a trip permit (and a designated landing spot?).

Edit: So what I'd do is get a 40' container (or swap body) and cut both ends off. Then at the front end, with pie-cuts in the floor and roof, the corrugated sides could be bent into a half-circle.

At the back two circular arcs (like a Gothic arch) to make a boattail. The cutting and rounding off would reduce the length from 40 to 35' (don't forget the hitch), making it eligible for an R-license. There could even be plan taper in the front and rear.

There are a number of drawbacks and misconceptions about using shipping containers for housing. For one, they aren't actually all that strong. They are only designed to be strong at the vertical supports on either end. Sure you can stack them, but make sure to only stack them like they get stacked on a ship. If you try any other way of stacking you WILL need to do heavy modifications which can cost quite a bit.

Then of course you have the cost. Where I live, it will cost me at least $1500 for a used shipping container and that doesn't include the cost of getting it to me (up to 500 miles or more). Could easily run me $5000 to buy a container and get it here. For that same $5000 I could probably build from scratch an 8ft by 30ft trailer house/travel trailer/tiny'ish home. Of course if I went the "normal route" many who build tiny homes do, $5000 could be spent just on the trailer frame. Hint, you can build your own trailer frame at a much reduced cost if you can source local steel and know how to weld (or have a buddy that can weld for maybe a few cases of beer or something). Of course, everything gets cheaper when you can salvage. If you can find an old free to nearly free travel trailer with a decent frame, you can rip it down to the frame, clean the frame up, and there you have it. Of course landfill fees could add up. You can however recover some of the landfill costs by selling parts out of the travel trailer such as the windows, stove, sinks, fresh water tank(s), etc. If done right with the right salvage travel trailer, you can get yourself a tiny home trailer frame for free to almost free (with some labor).

For the costs involved, I just can't see using a shipping container as a tiny home unless you happen to live close to a major port (would suck) or can get it free to nearly free. It would almost always be cheaper to salvage a travel trailer, just maybe not as easy.

[freebeard]

My niece is doing exactly that. A free trailer frame but none of the other parts. It's painted and she's shopping for material to deck it.

I guess I'm the one that brought up shippng containers. The Wikipedia page says the floors are plywood and may be full of fumigation chemicals.

I'm actually more interested in geodesic domes. The prototypes I've made were curved strips of redwood benderboard, but now I'm working on tooling to make 1 1/4" pipe hexagons that bolt together. It should be really stout.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Any promise of 'nearly-zero unemployment rates' is false going forward.

Sure, but when there is an excessive fiscal pressure there is an increase in unemployment ratios. It's happening now in Brazil...