Anyone tried HHO on a diesel?

[gone-ot]

...curiosity question: why is everyone writing HHO when H2O is the traditional notation for water?

[oldbeaver]

From the best of my knowledge, because H2O means a particular combination of a molecule of water, where two atoms of Hydrogen combinate with one atom of Oxigen, in a particular angle and so on.

When you electrolyze water into gas, one molecule of Hydrogen is produced (H2) plus 1/2 molecule of O2 (O).

Water, even when evaporated, is not the same as HHO.

[gone-ot]

...the polarization angle for H20 water is 104.45-degrees (don't ask why I remember this), and the "free" atmospheric combinations are diatomic, ie: H2, N2, O2, because monotomic combinations are unstable.

...was just curious.

...my thought would be: 2(H20) disassociates to 2H2 and O2

[oldbeaver]

Dear all,

My best electrolyzer is improving almost nothing the fuel yield and power of my diesel, while consuming like a big air conditioner.

See figures:

Well, I do not know how much HHO is my best electrolyzer producing. However, based on the info Stonebreaker took from a physics site, I am still able to make an estimate of the volume it is producing by proportionality:

Based on that physics site (cited by Stonebraker): "The energy required to electrolyze one mole of water is 237 kilojoules. So 11.78 moles requires 2791 kilojoules of energy - call it 2800 kilojoules. That's 2800 kJ per minute. To figure out the wattage, divide by 60 to get 46.7 kJ per second, which works out to 46,700 watts. Which, at 14.4 volts, is 3200 amps."

He made this calculation to establish how much HHO gas should be produced to feed a 6L diesel engine with 5% of Hydrogen to improve it´s fuel consumption. Five percent (5%) is the ideal Hydrogen Q to stimulate the combustion of the engine, gaining in power and yield.

As my engine is only 2.8 L , then I would need a little less than half the quantity of the 6 L engine, say only 0.466 times as much.

This yields to 21,793 watts and about 1,493 Amps.

As my electrolyzer is consuming only 20 Amps, then it should be producing only 0.0133 times as much (1.3% of what is necessary), which is in terms of total fuel used:

0.0133 x 5% = 0.00067 of total volume used by the car.

Conclussion: My electrolyzer, the best one, is producing a nill quantity of HHO improving in almost nothing the combustion of the diesel fuel.

On the other hand, it is consuming 20 Amps, like a big air conditioning equipment at full !

In fact, when I connect the electrolyzer, revs per minute diminish, the same way as I connect the air conditioning. If the engine were gaining power, revs should increase.

Any comments?

Maybe Stonebreaker or someone else can help calculating how much HHO absolute volume is my electrolyzer generating.

Tks.

OldBeaver

[gone-ot]

...can you say: "...another 'perpetual motion' contraption..." sure you can!

...I'm not saying the "use" of H2 to augment ICE operation isn't productive, just the idea of using a "closed-loop" system whereby a car's own generator is used to create the H2 it's going to consume to make the power to drive the generator to make more H2...etc.

...last time I did the math, 90% of 90% is only 81%...

[cfg83]

Old Tele man -

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...curiosity question: why is everyone writing HHO when H2O is the traditional notation for water?

I think it's just a nickname that stuck, it's not a technical syntax. H2O is water. The hydrogen is being separated, so the H's are "separated" in the nickname.

CarloSW2

[Christ]

Funny, though, that HHO still doesn't fully describe what's going on there.

In reality, because the stable environmental forms of H and O are actually H2 and O2 (as OTM pointed out), HHO cannot exist in a stable form. What's really happening is the separation of H, H, and O from a single H2O molecule to form H2 and O, which then is unstable and bonds to another O molecule to form O2.

What you end up with is H2, H2 and O2, which comes from 2 molecules of H2O. If allowed to recombine in this form, you'd have Hydrogen Peroxide and an extra H2 molecule.

Maybe instead of perpetual motion it's "Peroxide motion"?

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by Christ

Maybe instead of perpetual motion it's "Peroxide motion"?

...only the "hair dressers" will know for sure (wink,wink)!

[cfg83]

Hello -

Here's another article :

Effect of H2/O2 addition in increasing the thermal efficiency of a diesel engine
http://smacksboosters.110mb.com/HHOdiesel.pdf - 2008-2009

4. Conclusion
The impacts of using a small amount of H2/O2 mixture as an additive on the performance of a four-cylinder diesel engine were evaluated. The required amount of the mixture was generated using electrolysis of water considering on-board production of H2/O2 mixture. Hydrogen which has about nine times higher flame speed than diesel has the ability to enhance overall combustion generating higher peak pressure closer to TDC resulting in more work. The experimental results showed that with the introduction of 6.1% total diesel equivalent H2/O2 mixture into diesel, the brake thermal efficiency increased by 2.6% at 19 kW, 2.9% at 22 kW, and 1.6% at 28 kW. The brake specific fuel consumption of the engine reduced by 7.3%, 8.1%, and 4.8% at 19 kW, 22 kW, and 28 kW, respectively. However, adding H2/O2 beyond 5% does not have significant effect in enhancing the engine performance. The emissions of HC, CO2 and CO were found to be reduced due to better combustion while NOx increased due to the higher temperature reached during the combustion.

The 5% is in agreement with a 1989 ICE + H2/02 study from Israel. That study concluded that anything above 5-6% H2 has no positive effect. Too bad about the Higher NOx.

CarloSW2

[Christ]

Would someone please build a hydrogen engine and run a little gas or diesel through it, then tell me what happens?